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Peter Pallotta

A course you 'can play every day'...until you can't!
« on: July 16, 2019, 01:55:06 PM »
Has anyone had that experience?
I'm currently having it: a course (by Thompson disciple Robbie Robertson) that I found this year, immediately liked, saw & appreciated its architecture, and was sure I'd found the home course that I could 'play every day' (which in my world means 'fairly often'). But 7 rounds later I'm realizing that I was wrong -- the charm (or most of it) is gone. It's an easy walk, a compact routing, a mix of hole 'types', some varied green complexes, with some easy and some hard holes, some short and some long. But maybe because it's not a windy site, or because of the maintenance practices (always very green and lush and watered) -- but the course I 'could play every day' has already grown almost tedious. There isn't nearly the 'architecture' and choices and ways to play it and recovery options that I thought.
Have you had that happen?

« Last Edit: July 16, 2019, 01:57:04 PM by Peter Pallotta »

Sean_A

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Re: A course you 'can play every day'...until you can't!
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2019, 02:10:29 PM »
To be honest Pietro, I have never come across the course I want to play everyday. Its an almost impossible ask because I have many wants.  I definitely lean toward a heathland course and Woking is the first course I think of.  However, in the winter, I want a bone dry course and that means links...heathland courses simply don't compare.  I also really enjoy hilltop courses, but only on days when I know the weather cooperate  8)  I guess that makes me a 3 or 4 courses everyday kinda guy.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Turnberry, Isle of Harris, Askernish, Traigh, Iona, Tobermory, Portpatrick & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A course you 'can play every day'...until you can't!
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2019, 02:32:16 PM »
A reversible course might do the trick! :)
It would still need the right climate/soil type etc though.
atb

Peter Pallotta

Re: A course you 'can play every day'...until you can't!
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2019, 02:46:58 PM »
Just to clarify:
I've read that phrase so often, and over the years posters have described dozens of courses as ones they could/wish they could play every day, that I thought many such courses actually existed...at least, as in my case, for a brief bit of time.
Was wondering if others too had once thought they'd found such a place

« Last Edit: July 16, 2019, 02:48:58 PM by Peter Pallotta »

David Kelly

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Re: A course you 'can play every day'...until you can't!
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2019, 02:54:49 PM »
Was wondering if others too had once thought they'd found such a place
Playing golf everyday seems like a kind of mini Hell to me but I did find a place where I've played over 700 times in the last 18 years and haven't grown tired of yet.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A course you 'can play every day'...until you can't!
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2019, 05:11:16 PM »
To be honest Pietro, I have never come across the course I want to play everyday. Its an almost impossible ask because I have many wants.


Iím almost the exact opposite of Sean in this regard. I think I can find almost any course worth playing time and time again.


 My home muni is nothing anyone on here would find special, but I find it almost endlessly compelling. Maybe I just gotten there yet [there being Seanís level, both play level and experience level), but I can always, always find something interesting. Iíve even been rediscovering it recently, playing it repeatedly during my sonís first tee lessons, whereas I hadnít played it much for 15 or so years.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Jay Mickle

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Re: A course you 'can play every day'...until you can't!
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2019, 07:07:13 PM »
When I mentioned playing my home course 150+ times a year, I recall Tom Doak responding something along the lines
that he never designed a course with the idea that it might be played 150+ times a year.
@MickleStix on Instagram
MickleStix.com

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A course you 'can play every day'...until you can't!
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2019, 07:18:01 PM »
I have fallen in love with several courses I want to play every day, including Jay's home course, but never have been lucky enough to play any of them enough times to find out if I would fall out of love. The course I have played the most that I think I could play every day is Hope Valley and still think I would want to do so.


Ira

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: A course you 'can play every day'...until you can't!
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2019, 07:29:37 PM »
There a number of courses I could play on a regular basis. The European Club fits that for me. When I go to Ireland I rarely play anywhere else anymore. I spent three days at Hidden Creek in NJ last week and played six rounds. I doubt I could ever tire of the course.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Pete_Pittock

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Re: A course you 'can play every day'...until you can't!
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2019, 07:50:45 PM »

Peter,
I understand and am happy I found a solution. I love the North course at my club. Conversely the South course, to me, is as exhilarating as a driving range. The first half of the month, on the North, I will probably play 7-10 rounds with abundant smiles . After the Ides I will get in 3-5 rounds, all the while waiting for my palate to be refreshed with the new month.

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A course you 'can play every day'...until you can't!
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2019, 08:12:57 PM »
For me, Mid Pines might come as close as possible to the play every day threshold. Design, playability-challenge, compact routing, interesting green complexes, walkability etc.
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A course you 'can play every day'...until you can't!
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2019, 08:35:41 PM »
Bandon Dunes Resort
It's all about the golf!

Steve Lang

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Re: A course you 'can play every day'...until you can't!
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2019, 09:35:36 PM »
 8)  Peter, do tell...  have you played all the tees?  Have you played a progressive where you start at front tees and move back if you birdie and move forward if you bogey?


Can you shoot par from the forward tees?
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Peter Pallotta

Re: A course you 'can play every day'...until you can't!
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2019, 10:55:33 AM »

I hear what you're saying/asking, Steve - but the answers are the very ones that generated this thread, ie that have me realizing that I can't play this course every day (or even every week):

- the blue tees, except for one exception, are always only about 10 paces behind the whites, and on the exact same line; while the red tees tend to be 50 to 100 paces ahead of the whites. The former provides little variety, the latter changes the nature of the game too much for my tastes, and not in either a fun or challenging way -- I don't want to play golf with just a 5 iron and a wedge
- While i am a card and pencil type, it's because that's an easy way to 'track' my ball striking. I've been averaging about 1 birdie and 2-3 bogeys and 5 pars a round (ie 9 holes), and while it would be nice to par everything and bogey nothing and make more birdies, I really don't want to do it by moving around from one set of tees to another.
That's been discussed a lot around here: I know many good and experienced players do just that, moving from one set to another even during the same round -- but I never have, and I don't want to: I'd like to think that I'm playing the course as the architect 'intended'.
Which comes to my main point, i.e. after only about 7 plays, I've realized that the architect hadn't 'intended' all that much! And with all the lushness and the green-ness and the wetness...well, no, I can't play it every day.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 10:58:25 AM by Peter Pallotta »

Colin Macqueen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A course you 'can play every day'...until you can't!
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2019, 07:10:33 PM »
Dear Peter,
When the love of your life disappoints you it is an affy blow!
Cheers Colin
"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

James Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A course you 'can play every day'...until you can't!
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2019, 10:53:23 PM »
This is really a discussion about love and true love. 


No matter how beautiful she is, at some point you are gonna get tired of her looks.  You have to love the whole person to experience true love for life, not just the the superficial and age dependent factors. 


I have played a handful of courses that I would want to play every day forever.  Well, maybe 3-4 times a week in season.  Woking is the most recent one.  Dornoch, where I am a overseas member and will probably never be able to play every day is another.    Sunningdale maybe.  North Berwick.  Penn State White.  Maidstone.  The Ocean Course. 

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: A course you 'can play every day'...until you can't!
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2019, 06:16:39 AM »
The Ocean Course.


The one at Kiawah?


Never expected to see that course on this thread.

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A course you 'can play every day'...until you can't!
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2019, 07:39:41 AM »
Peter, I suspect the watering down, is the reason your initial observation seemed to disappear.


I'm currently experiencing a similar occurrence. Architecture that is vastly superior in intelligence than the committees that have governed her.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Peter Pallotta

Re: A course you 'can play every day'...until you can't!
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2019, 09:46:37 AM »
Adam - I think you may be right.

Colin - Is it better to have loved and lost? Not when it comes to golf courses!

Jay - I've been thinking about Tom's comment since you posted it. I remain surprised and befuddled.

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A course you 'can play every day'...until you can't!
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2019, 10:00:47 AM »
Adam - I think you may be right.

Colin - Is it better to have loved and lost? Not when it comes to golf courses!

Jay - I've been thinking about Tom's comment since you posted it. I remain surprised and befuddled.


Peter-I too am perplexed by Tomís comment and would be interested in hearing him address it.

John McCarthy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A course you 'can play every day'...until you can't!
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2019, 06:17:52 PM »
Wouldn't the course need to have large greens with many pinning locations as well as variable winds?  Where I grew up I always ended up playing in the afternoon and there was a quite regular zephyr out of the southwest in the late afternoon (most of my rounds)..  But consider Wrigley Field, with wind blowing in 60% but out otherwise.  Two different ball fields.
The only way of really finding out a man's true character is to play golf with him. In no other walk of life does the cloven hoof so quickly display itself.
 PG Wodehouse

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A course you 'can play every day'...until you can't!
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2019, 04:46:13 PM »
For me, there really hasn't been any other option for most of life.


Through age 50, the towns i lived in had one place to play. One.  And driving to neighboring towns to play simply wasn't an option.


My solution was to play in tournaments. Lots of tournaments. I think I've played in at least 350 golf tournaments since I started playing seriously 55 years ago.


But there's another reason I have always been mostly content to play one course. And that's the economics of being a "member."


When you join a club or buy a season pass at a public course, the more you play, the less it costs. My wife and I are currently in Mesa, AZ, and if we play a couple of times a week, hit balls an equal number of times it will cost about $600 a month, even at summer rates.


In the winter, that at least doubles for the courses I'm willing to play.


Having to open my wallet every time we play or practice is a powerful disincentive to participation.


K
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A course you 'can play every day'...until you can't!
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2019, 05:08:10 PM »
Once upon a time in GB&I unless you were a very good Amateur and thus played in higher profile events almost all play was at your home club. Some never played anywhere else apart from the odd away game on holiday.
Perhaps the growth in the number of courses in the 70ís-90ís changed this. Maybe it was ease of travel with road improvements and more available flights or maybe retired folks living longer or a combination of all,plus others.
In any case over the last few decades it seems that the amount of non-home club play has increased.
In particular the number of club open competitions enterable by members of other clubs with handicaps has expanded greatly over the last couple of decades. Singles, Pairs, mixed, team alliances, juniors, seniors etc. Multi-course, multi-day events too.
Atb

James Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A course you 'can play every day'...until you can't!
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2019, 08:59:50 PM »
The Ocean Course.


The one at Kiawah?


Never expected to see that course on this thread.


Yep.


Oh yes, one of the most pleasant courses I know if you play from the right tees.  As I think people here may appreciate, I really love a good walking course on the seaside.  Now, granted I have never played the Ocean Course in the middle of the summer and they have no membership plan as far as I know, but nonetheless this is the most  difficult course I would put on this list. 

Dave McCollum

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Re: A course you 'can play every day'...until you can't!
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2019, 09:21:21 PM »
There a number of courses I could play on a regular basis. The European Club fits that for me. When I go to Ireland I rarely play anywhere else anymore. I spent three days at Hidden Creek in NJ last week and played six rounds. I doubt I could ever tire of the course.


Tommy--


I wrote a more detailed response to this and managed to delete it inadvertently.  I basically said, like Tom D. about the Ocean Course, I didn't expect the EC to be in this conversation.  I played in a gale that had the ferries shut down.  Before I went out I chatted with a member who played on some tour who said it was beyond competitive standards.  We tried it, ran for cover, and went back out when conditions were less severe and finished.  Afterwards, Pat R. chatted with our group and I told him I thought his course was too much for my game on calm day.  This was some years ago when I was playing my best.  That you'd like to play this course daily, I bow in respect to my golfing superiors.  You are my hero.    [size=78%]   [/size]

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