[Amol Yajnik]

The best player statistically on the PGA Tour this season has been Rory McIlroy and he has always predominantly hit a draw with every club in his bag.  Obviously he can fade it if he needs to, but the draw is his preferred shot.

[JESII]

To Don's original point, should architects build courses that force an uncomfortable shot on the top players?


Tom Doak, has this come up at all on our Houston project?

[Rich Goodale]

Trevino claimed he could hit a draw or a fade, but noted:


"You can talk to a fade but you can't talk to a draw."


Why he hated Augusta was another story.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Wasn't there a scientist that proved hitting up on a ball on a tee naturally fades, while hitting down on a ball on the ground naturally draws?
Erik, who would that be?

Nope. It's basic geometry that only "works" or "applies" when the baseline is perfectly neutral (0°). Shift the baseline a bit and you can hit fades or draws hitting up or down slightly.

Why he hated Augusta was another story.

Partly the politics/"feel" of the place, and partly his low ball flight made it tough for him to hit and hold the greens.

[Mike_Young]

Geoff Ogilvy mentioned on the Fried egg podcast that doglegs with a turning point based amateur distance (250-260) cause the pros more grief, i.e., Wailaie.  Some guys can carry the corner over the trees, but most either have to take less club or really shape it. 


It also seems like a lot of doglegs played on tour have a ~160 degree angle, which doesn't put enough pressure on pros to shape a shot.  At Augusta there seems to be much harder angles, in the 130-150 degree range on 9, 10, and 13 specifically, that force a player to shape it or as you've seen, be out of position.  On 10 that's emphasized with the green sloping hard right to left.

That's why added length could make 13 an easier hole...

[Kalen Braley]

Geoff Ogilvy mentioned on the Fried egg podcast that doglegs with a turning point based amateur distance (250-260) cause the pros more grief, i.e., Wailaie.  Some guys can carry the corner over the trees, but most either have to take less club or really shape it. 


It also seems like a lot of doglegs played on tour have a ~160 degree angle, which doesn't put enough pressure on pros to shape a shot.  At Augusta there seems to be much harder angles, in the 130-150 degree range on 9, 10, and 13 specifically, that force a player to shape it or as you've seen, be out of position.  On 10 that's emphasized with the green sloping hard right to left.

That's why added length could make 13 an easier hole...

The difference being for example the course I saw at Tampa a few weeks back with those awkward doglegs, didn't seem to have the bit giant ramps/ side boards like 11 and 13 have to keep the ball in play. If you weren't precise on those curve angles and distance, you were going in that punishing rough...

[Philip Hensley]

If the trac man is to be believed, I’d say we ought to be building more holes that force players to turn it over, since it seems they all fade the ball anymore.

Good topic.


Local course recently hosted a collegiate tourney. First hole is a gentle turn to the left with water and trees on the left. In practice rounds some of the players would start a fade over the trees (and water). A simple draw that follows the shape of the hole seems like it should be a shot top collegiate players should be able to hit.

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