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Gib_Papazian

Re: $10M & Change
« Reply #100 on: February 27, 2019, 01:07:00 AM »
The first thing - unless your objective is to die broke - is try to turn a 1 million dollar golf course into a 10 million valuation, not the other way around. Actually, I've already got it scoped out.

Down CA 101 from San Francisco - past Monterey, even beyond King City and San Ardo - is Paso Robles, a noted wine destination for those in the know.

Everybody, familiar with the Central Coast, is already thinking Gib wants to buy Hunter Ranch - a terrific homemade job on Highway 46. Hinky architecture in spots - notice I did not write "quirky" - but a golf course long on sex appeal and worth a play.

So one night, I'm picking around on Google Earth and spot what looks like an abandoned golf course, north of 46, the same road where James Dean stuffed his Porsche at the 41 interchange.

So there it is, laid out like a lost Tom Bendelow track that time forgot. Nothing fancy - smelly gas carts, a temporary (read "permanent") pro shop that looks more like an upscale Goodwill inside and this glorious stretch of dusty, sandy loam, with an amazingly entertaining golf course.


It looks like a group of resourceful farmers got together and built a beautifully utilitarian wander amongst the homemade (but well placed) bunkers and stubborn coyote bushes.

Neal and I went to visit like archeologists looking for a lost Inca tomb - although in truth there is a small group of local devotees that keep the place on life support.

The last I'd heard, the original concept was a golf/winemaking type destination resort - under the theory that golfers generally like fine vino. They had also drawn up plans for a spa of sorts - so Redhead would have a place to spend the requisite $400 plus tip.

The story goes that after the last real estate train wreck, all seven owners ended up in a courtroom pissing contest and the place has been tied up in litigation for years.

Now, this is all hearsay, but where there is smoke . . . . .

So, I would offer to buy out all the partners - who would be happy to get out of Dodge and invest in something more lucrative - without bad Chi and litigation baggage.

Nobody is going to hardball me because if they were intent upon doing something with the property, at least a couple of the investors would have tidied up the title and moved forward - especially in this good economy.

All they have is a ghost ship, along a lonely country road - with a few of the local punters, hobbits and trolls buying the occasional beer and stale sandwich after coughing up their el cheapo green fee.

I bet I can clear the decks and get title for less than 3 million. Then, Neal Meagher and Gib finally design and build Redan Hills Golf Club. The architecture of the course will be like a game of chutes and ladders - with all sorts of sneaky kick points and amusing surprises.

A spiritual amalgamation of Prestwick, Lahinch, North Berwick, Cruden Bay and NGLA. And speaking of, there would be a statue in the library at Redan Hills - of Sir Bob Huntley, as a reminder that everyone is to remove their hat in the clubhouse, not because it is a rule, but because it is "the proper thing to do." (suggested modification by Niall C)

The clubhouse will be an irregular maze of nooks and hidden seating areas - all with a view of the rolling farmland; there will be no locks on the lockers because nobody would ever foul the karma of our enclave. Pat Mucci and Tommy Naccarato will be the membership committee.

Rhic Goodale will have veto power over any decisions - it is always good to have an adult in the room. 

There will be a painting of Bahto above the fireplace, right next to a painting of my father. You see, on May 3, 2013, part of a three day King Putter event on the Central Coast, Neal and I were excited to see what everyone thought of our new find - an absolutely unknown hidden gem, waiting to be found and recut into a Steuben crystal.

But standing on the tee, playing in the last group, the cell rang and my little brother called to tell me the old man had passed early that morning. I was not ready for that epochal changing of the guard, but it might also have been a message from the future.

Start by buying a funky old farmhouse and let it evolve organically. The course will be rough around the edges, with naturalism the rule, not the exception. Greens will never Stimp faster than 9 or 10 - putting aside the first asshole who brings a Stimp down the entrance road will be stripped of their membership and gang raped by a gaggle of horny pygmies, who will also be the grounds crew.

Since the course will have no particular historical pedigree, Neal and I will be free to tinker all we like - provided no change is ever made except to increase the fun factor. Tee markers will be set every day at the whim of the pygmy Superintendent because there will be no such thing at Redan Hills as "par."

Anyone complaining a hole is "too easy" - or caught playing scorecard and pencil golf here in Candyland -  will be given an economy class plane ticket to Chicago and a tee time at Butler National.

All architectural suggestions will be taken seriously . . . . . .  but with a grain of salt.






 
           








 
 
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 03:26:06 PM by Gib Papazian »

Mike Bodo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: $10M & Change
« Reply #101 on: February 27, 2019, 07:55:08 AM »
Gib -


I love your proposed plan and the sounds of this place. I don't know how well-traveled the highway is that the course sits off of, but if you have a fair amount of wine tourists going through there and a nearby bed and breakfast community, there is a good chance you can pick off passerby's to pop in and play. If you, yourself, had lodging available, all the better!  ;)


The proposed layout of Redan Hills (love the name, BTW), as you've described it, sounds awesome! I drink a lot of California wine produced in the Paso Robles area. My wife and I plan to do a wine and golf trip out California way in the future. Originally, we had Napa on the mind, but I could see hitting Paso Robles and playing Redan Hills simply from hearing your description.


More importantly, you are approaching this from the same perspective as me with Pine View. Find a distressed owner whose current course is nothing to write home about, but sits on an excellent parcel of land with tons of potential. Form there, buy the course for a song a dance and plow a bunch of money into it to make it what it should or could have been all along. Unfortunately, I don't have $10 million just sitting around looking for a good home to buy Pine View with, but I am hoping that by putting this out to the GCA community someone with friends in high places and deep pockets will take my suggestion, perform due diligence, acquire the property and run with it. Like I said, it's not a matter of if, but when this course will be sold to a real estate developer (who I am sure will pay considerably more for it) or a fellow owner or consortium of owners who wish to maintain the property as a golf course and make it much more than what it is today.


Best of luck with your venture, Gib. I truly hope it comes to fruition! Love your writing style too. I got a few good laughs from your post to start my morning.  ;D
"90% of all putts left short are missed." - Yogi Berra

ChipRoyce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: $10M & Change
« Reply #102 on: February 27, 2019, 08:02:37 AM »
Officially announcing the beginning of the Wolf Point Social Club. Will be selling merch featuring the WPSC logo, as well as drawings of imaginary course routings that will never be built. Donations welcome.
PRICELESS

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: $10M & Change
« Reply #103 on: February 27, 2019, 08:16:08 AM »
 ;D ;)




Gib quite enjoyable and a good start to the day !

Gib_Papazian

Re: $10M & Change
« Reply #104 on: February 27, 2019, 01:13:33 PM »
"Redan Hills" is actually based on a dream I had many years ago. It started as a GCA thread - something along the lines of "If you started a club, what would it look like?" Eventually, I took some ideas from Neal, some from Goodale (and the rest of the early GCA gang) and it came to life in our mind's eye.


Finding what is now called "The Links Course at Paso Robles" came some years later, perhaps around 2010. The name has been changed several times - at one point "Diablo" something, but the new moniker did not pull the coyote bushes growing from the bunkers. 


I would love to have separate bedrooms upstairs - simple but nice, with enough water pressure in the showers so the overhead fixtures could pound the soreness out of my aging bones.


We've gone round and round about the food, but a simple, elegantly conceived menu should satisfy the wants of our members and guests. Every month, the menu turns over - keeping one dish that has proved popular. Eventually, by elimination, 1/2 the menu is popular dishes that have stood the test of time - the other half is whatever our young, energetic chef wants to whip up.


To augment our revenue stream, there will be a separate dining room (remember, this is a large farm house) for the public hoi polloi - fancy looking, with buttery lighting - and a separate "Members Only" dining area with Golf Channel, insanely comfortable, overstuffed chairs (mismatched, but selected for comfort only) and Anchor Steam beer on tap . . . .  compliments of the house.


No cash will be accepted - except to tip Molly and Edgar - a former hubby and wife trucking team, who got tired of dodging speed traps in the Ozarks and decided to settle down as caretakers of Redan Hills.


As previously decided, the "Head Pro" will be an aging 60-something, with a sketchy past full of hard booze, golf hustles and angry ex-wives. Paso Robles is the last stop on the train and a good hiding place from his, ahem, previous entanglements.


In light of California laws, there will be a large, homemade, bamboo bong in the corner - and a small greenhouse (50 plants) of different varieties and cross-breeds - for sale to the public.


Like Elizabeth Warren, I have discovered a native American heritage from the heretofore unknown "Baklava Indian Tribe." Instead of gambling or tobacco, our "nation" (read: tax dodge) will supply all things cannabis - managed by Dan King. The objective is black ink on the bottom-line, to pay for our largesse - like sending our local golf prodigies to college or out on the mini-tours.


More later.


       


 




« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 01:55:24 PM by Gib Papazian »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: $10M & Change
« Reply #105 on: February 27, 2019, 03:25:28 PM »
Gib:


Sounds like a cool place.  I hope the difficulties of taxation and water in California still allow for something like that to be feasible.  It would be a lot easier in most other states!


P.S.  Did you know that I did a routing for Hunter Ranch back before they built it?  Peter Oosterhuis introduced me to Ken Hunter, who he knew from Santa Barbara.  Sadly, my salesmanship skills were not good enough for Mr. Hunter.  That was a good piece of ground, but the course is pretty generic.

Gib_Papazian

Re: $10M & Change
« Reply #106 on: February 28, 2019, 12:27:02 PM »
Tom,


I would not say Hunter Ranch is "generic," specifically because there are some head-scratching rookie errors in the routing. In other words, it is clear where they got stubborn in spots and crossed the line between amusing quirk and dumb-ass mistakes. There are two or three holes in particular you would never have let them seed before fixing the obvious errors.


You'd love the property across Highway 46 - I think it would inspire you. You are correct, now that California has elected a bonafide totalitarian Communist as Governor, I'm not bullish about any investment Gavin and his thieves can strangle out of existence with fees, fines and class warfare.


However, organizations like Club Corp are the perfect fit - and their diversified holdings in many different states may provide a lot of avenues to shuttle money in & out of the state and country. Again, you are correct, a "stand-alone" club is a sitting duck for the long arm of harassment-through-regulation.


       


 
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 12:49:38 PM by Gib Papazian »

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: $10M & Change
« Reply #107 on: February 28, 2019, 01:04:25 PM »
Gib- we need dreamers.  As I am sitting in my office wondering whether I want to freeze my rear off for a quick 9, I understand why you have not joined the diaspora.


But if a change of environs might be in your horizons, your recently acquired affiliation could be useful.  I am aware of two or three tribal courses in desperate need of your imagination and greenbacks.  Surely if the esteemed senator from the great state of MA has found a way to monetize her discovered protected class status, you can make the proper adjustments to your papers and help one of the tribes out (as you know, our native Americans had a long history of assimilating members of other tribes, albeit mostly women and children).  I understand that self-identification is the zeitgeist in more enlightened areas, so for a man of your creativity and communication skills, it should not be a problem.  Good luck!

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: $10M & Change
« Reply #108 on: February 28, 2019, 01:54:34 PM »
An spiritual amalgamation of Prestwick, Lahinch, North Berwick, Cruden Bay and NGLA. And speaking of, there would be a statue in the library at Redan Hills - of Sir Bob Huntley, as a reminder that everyone is to remove their hat in the clubhouse, not because it is a rule, but because it is a tradition! the proper thing to do.

Gib - that's the only change I'd make to your beautifully conceived dream. More power to your elbow.

Niall










Neal_Meagher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: $10M & Change
« Reply #109 on: March 01, 2019, 02:13:09 PM »
Though absent from this august group of distinguished golf design thinkers, aficionados, ragamuffins and bon vivants for some time, I am pleased to return to throw down my thoughts on Gib's Redan Hills.


In many ways, the best results in all fields come from those people with, seemingly, little in common.  In golf, I doubt that CB Mac and Seth Raynor spent too many drunken evenings together discussing, well, anything.  Yet, they put together a pretty decent string of courses together for the very reason that one of them was the mad visionary and the other was the principled and diligent disciple who knew how to make the vision reality. 


Some of you out there know both Gib and me, and probably scratch your heads at the very thought of us being friends.  Not to mention how or why or if we would ever conspire to actually find a client willing to allow us to make their project our very own laboratory of odd landforms.  Landforms that both funnel and deflect golf balls in a way that all would be tantalized by. 


So, it was that nearly a decade ago we both did manage to stumble onto this very odd little course hard by the Paso Robles airport that was, and still is, the very personification of hard scrabble.  Where once sand-filled pot bunkers sat, now only lonely wee grassy pits lie.  Lovely in their decrepitude, beguiling in their I-don't-give-a-damn attitude.  A routing that was, in turns, sublime and rank amateur.  A setting that features long views of surrounding central coast hills but in a location that allows the summer sun to blaze away.  Of course, we were enchanted.  And at once knew that if Redan Hills would or could ever be realized that this was as good a candidate as any.


Cut to now, and from the latest aerial I see that the scrub separating the holes have been shorn in favor of vineyards, all the better to help feed the cash cow I suppose.  Yet, the holes are all still there, none of them uncomfortably close to once another laterally yet with greens and tees suitably adjacent for a good walk in the park.  And those formerly sand-filled bunkers, yes, still mostly grassy pits waiting for some love and attention.  And there is a generously sized plot of land behind the current double-wide clubhouse that is just waiting for the right kind of structure, the kind that Gib described with appropriately vernacular agrarian architecture and wide porches to help shield out the beating sun and to provide a home for rows of rocking chairs.  You know, the kind you see outside of Cracker Barrel's, except with leather-skinned golfers sporting farmer's tans from wearing golf shirts and Patrick Reed-like starched white foreheads from having ball caps permanently affixed to their heads.  And they would be holding appropriately weighted glassware containing a dram or three from the well-stocked bar inside that makes no distinction between lovers of Speyside or Highlands or Isle of Skye whisky's.  And it is wine country, so of course there would be a fine selection of those to choose from.  So....maybe not exactly like Cracker Barrel.


And the best part of all of doing this project, of resurrecting this real hidden gem, is that it would truthfully be a realization of the hopes and dreams and aspirations of many who only could have known each other from this very discussion group.  Thanks Ran.  For in addition to me and Gib leading the charge (I am a golf course designer for those of you who are probably wondering who the hell this guy is, formerly a member of the ASGCA until I decided that I work better as a lone wolf), we would be in charge of a design collective that would embrace the ideas of a certain Mr. Tommy Naccarato among many others here.  And our lead shaper would be another individual from this group, though also in the past, a certain Scot Clem who has cut his teeth working on courses for David Kidd, Kyle Phillips, Andy Staples and....oh yes, me.  Think of this as a symphony orchestra: The final results are not merely the iron clad design ethos of a single individual but, rather, a designer who acts as conductor with the supporting cast as the first violin, timpani player, and yes, even the overlooked triangle.  They all play a role.  This is a course that can and should benefit from the studied observations and experiences of many, the common thread being GolfClubAtlas.


« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 02:34:30 PM by Neal_Meagher »
The purpose of art is to delight us; certain men and women (no smarter than you or I) whose art can delight us have been given dispensation from going out and fetching water and carrying wood. It's no more elaborate than that. - David Mamet

www.nealmeaghergolf.com

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: $10M & Change
« Reply #110 on: March 01, 2019, 06:18:29 PM »
Neal-  perhaps you and your partner should negotiate a purchase price and lengthy feasibility period.  Better yet, negotiate a lease for at least one year with two one-year options to really dig into the animal, get a sense of what it can do, ascertain ow much it will cost to get where you want to go, and to raise funds.  Lastly, unless you are suicidal, I would erase everything following "Thanks Ran" in your last paragraph.  If it was me leading the charge, design/build by committee would be the next to the last thing I would want to do, just ahead of dealing with the CA bureaucracy (tell me that it is outside the CCC's tentacles) and local NIMBYs.  BTW, what is your source of water?  Best of luck!   

Gib_Papazian

Re: $10M & Change
« Reply #111 on: March 06, 2019, 04:44:29 PM »
Lou,


I promise you that Neal is an incredibly patient man - and the perfect Conductor for this project. The poor bastard has been subjected to my discursive, pontificatory diatribes for more than two decades and never once lost his patience at my latest "genius" (read: completely impractical) design idea.


There is no doubt in my mind that if Neal, me, Rhic, Mucci, Emperor, Clemster and Joel Stewart put our heads together, we might come up with one of the most intellectually stimulating golf courses the world has ever known.


I mean that. I'd also put you and Todd Hagen (who many of you know) in charge of all the finances. Todd because he's a retired Wharton CFO and you, primarily because you've somehow obtained an extra common sense gene - perhaps the one I am missing. By the power vested in me as Vice-Wizard, I am also putting your smarty-pants son on the same committee to manage the dinero.


Just take a step back for a moment and ponder this: Where else on this planet can you find THIS MANY extremely knowledgeable and well-traveled golf historians and aficionados? Forget about the hundreds of lurkers too intimidated to pick a philosophical fight in the Faculty Lounge.


Have Clem rough out the first green with a dozer - and with one camera, the Committee can have a look from wherever they are at. We all spit out our notions, Neal decides which works best with time and budget; rinse and repeat until we have 18 holes. We'll make Doak the permanent Green Chair with absolute authority. That way, in case Wayne Morrison somehow gets past the membership committee, the suggestion box won't be full of "This is how we do it at Merion."   ;)



 








 
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 07:25:34 PM by Gib Papazian »

Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: $10M & Change
« Reply #112 on: March 07, 2019, 02:04:22 PM »
I was recently at a high end club, where I am not a member, and the on course bathroom was occupied by one of the greens staff for a full 30 min. I know because I was desperate and spotted his mule from the preceding tee. We were walking and he had a vehicle. Come on man, take it to the barn.

[/quote


How do you know he was in there for 30 mins.. Did you let the next few groups through while waiting?
Next!

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: $10M & Change
« Reply #113 on: March 07, 2019, 05:09:42 PM »
Gib,


Thanks for the honor, but I've lost all my confidence when it comes to finance and managing money.  Though I have the training and experience, I am afraid that the events since the last year of Bush II's administration through Obama's terms and the current orientations of both political parties have me doubting all that I once knew to be true.  I really don't have a clue which way is up anymore, so maybe someone who understands CA and 21st Century economics can handle the finances and budgets.


As to Alex, I was on a strange trip back in the fall- perhaps because I had started listening to the Dead again after a long hiatus- and got to thinking about making a run at a course I am rather fond of.  I gave my son a rough sketch of the financial structure and asked him if he would help me raise funds and join me as an equity partner.  He looks me in the eye and said something to the effect "Are you out of your f------g mind"?  Well, he is well-trained on those matters and quick on his feet.


Nevertheless, keep on dreaming big.  We do have a huge bank of talent on this site, but perhaps with alligator arms or not so deep pockets.  I would love to see your plans come to fruition.  As long as I am still upright you can count me on being a frequent visitor who would be more than happy to pay the requisite guest fees.  It would be a gas seeing the project materialize as described in your last paragraph.  And I would be okay with Wayne and Tom visiting, just not at the same time as our friend from L.A.     

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: $10M & Change
« Reply #114 on: March 07, 2019, 05:21:52 PM »
Gib & Lou,

Sounds like you guys may be on the right track.  i think it was TD who said years ago, its not the original builder/owner, or the one who buys it after the 1st bankruptcy, who can make a golf course work financially...its the 3rd or 4th owners.

So perhaps just figure out how many prior owners the place has had, or at least if there were any before the Simmering Seven...

YW...  ;)

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: $10M & Change
« Reply #115 on: March 07, 2019, 05:34:18 PM »
If I had that kind of money.
I wouldn't buy the course ... but lease one instead
Cape Breton Highlands


I would quit the golf design business and fix the golf course properly.
It would take me years to do ... and some equipment that they don't have.
I would need a great superintendent as co-collaborator













-

Don Mahaffey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: $10M & Change
« Reply #116 on: March 07, 2019, 09:34:09 PM »
.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 03:36:45 PM by Don Mahaffey »

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: $10M & Change
« Reply #117 on: March 08, 2019, 07:52:52 AM »
I was recently at a high end club, where I am not a member, and the on course bathroom was occupied by one of the greens staff for a full 30 min. I know because I was desperate and spotted his mule from the preceding tee. We were walking and he had a vehicle. Come on man, take it to the barn.

[/quote


How do you know he was in there for 30 mins.. Did you let the next few groups through while waiting?


Anthony,


Yes we did let a group go through. To make matters worse, it was a couple of women which prevented my obvious solution of using the stall marked Women. It's time for all golf course bathrooms to be non-discriminatory.

Matt Halliday

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: $10M & Change
« Reply #118 on: March 14, 2019, 11:02:47 PM »
I would buy Southern Pines Golf Club and have Coore, Crenshaw, and Kyle Franz do a major restoration on all 27 holes.

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: $10M & Change
« Reply #119 on: March 15, 2019, 10:19:39 AM »
Re: Redan Hills, I don't think the Wizard envisions spending $10 Million.   If it is possible to read between the lines, the purchase price is south of $3M, add a bit for political cooperation, say 20%, another 20% gets the ball rolling and for working capital, and much of the rest is done organically over time.


Again, not second-guessing but interpreting the vision, the club would operate more like one in Scotland than in Orange County.  Since it is a work of love, the compensation for those involved is high on psychic benefits and modest with the Benjamins.  The exception would be for a small, nuclear professional staff, which, if I was the volunteer head of ER, I would bring in Mr. Mahaffey to assist during due diligence and serve as the hands-on COO after closing.


As to Bob Huntley, I would be honored to chair a small fundraising committee to commission a life-sized statute to be placed near the front entrance of the Huntley Clubhouse, his left hand holding his hat and the right extended to welcome all members and visitors.  And since my son has shown little interest in the literature of gca, I'll seed the George Bahto reading room with some of my favorites (though my signed copy of George's and Gib's "The Evangelist Of Golf" stays with me until I am not).


Sorry if it seems that I am co-opting The Dream.  Many of us have fantasized for a long time about doing something like this.  I do hope it becomes much more than that.
     

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: $10M & Change
« Reply #120 on: December 30, 2020, 07:31:14 PM »
Bump




Peter Pallotta

Re: $10M & Change
« Reply #121 on: December 30, 2020, 07:36:43 PM »
Bump
Are you trying to tell us something, Eric?
I hope so.
And if so, please know I've always held you in the highest regard, long before it was either popular or profitable.

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: $10M & Change
« Reply #122 on: December 30, 2020, 08:57:41 PM »
Bump
Are you trying to tell us something, Eric?
I hope so.
And if so, please know I've always held you in the highest regard, long before it was either popular or profitable.


Ha! Lord, no, Peter. I thought I was bumping the Get to Know John Kavanaugh thread. ;D 

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: $10M & Change
« Reply #123 on: December 31, 2020, 12:27:11 PM »
 8)  I thought it a bump for Zac Blair to read if he hasn't already...
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: $10M & Change
« Reply #124 on: December 31, 2020, 11:05:20 PM »
 8)


If you want to make money and have fun there is one for sale in Somers Point NJ

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