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Tommy Williamsen

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Was the bunker the first thing you noticed?
« on: July 27, 2020, 07:04:08 PM »



On the front page of the website Ran suggests that if you are a GCA geek you would notice the centerline bunker more than the cliff. I have played this hole and am sad to announce that I saw the cliff first.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2020, 04:02:08 PM by Tommy Williamsen »
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Ira Fishman

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Re: Was the bunker the first thing you noticed?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2020, 07:13:56 PM »
There is not a golfer alive, amateur or pro, who would not notice the cliff first. Now, if the bunker surrounded trees as on CPC17, then maybe not, but I doubt it.


Ira
« Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 07:20:38 PM by Ira Fishman »

Pete_Pittock

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Re: Was the bunker the first thing you noticed?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2020, 07:19:42 PM »
You probably booked your round at Sand Hollow because of the cliff holes, not the bunkering scheme

JMEvensky

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Re: Was the bunker the first thing you noticed?
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2020, 08:09:58 PM »

There is not a golfer alive, amateur or pro, who would not notice the cliff first. Now, if the bunker surrounded trees as on CPC17, then maybe not, but I doubt it.


Ira


Agreed--and I think you could include golf course architects as well.

Mark_Fine

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Re: Was the bunker the first thing you noticed?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2020, 10:13:30 PM »
I hate to say it but my eye did go to that bunker but honestly it looked forced to me and out of place and I usually love center-line hazards.  I have not played the course and this is why you donít judge courses without seeing them in person.   

Matt_Cohn

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Re: Was the bunker the first thing you noticed?
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2020, 11:34:36 PM »
If the title were "What's the first thing you notice in this picture?" it would be a much fairer question.

Ian_L

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Re: Was the bunker the first thing you noticed?
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2020, 12:09:49 AM »
I hate to say it but my eye did go to that bunker but honestly it looked forced to me and out of place and I usually love center-line hazards.  I have not played the course and this is why you donít judge courses without seeing them in person.


With Mark's appropriate caveat (have not played the course either), it seems that taking out the left half of the bunker would tempt some players to skirt the cliff for a better angle. From the picture it doesn't look like there is enough room to either side, so you'd have to lay back or try to carry.


I look forward to being proven wrong by those who have been!

Matthew Rose

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Re: Was the bunker the first thing you noticed?
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2020, 02:23:57 AM »
Well I saw three bunkers, but only because it said "was the bunker the first thing you noticed?"

If the question was "what is the first thing you noticed", then I'd probably say the cliff.
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Jon Wiggett

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Re: Was the bunker the first thing you noticed?
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2020, 03:51:41 AM »
Does the bunker affect play any more than if it were just the slope there kicking the ball left? I ask because it is hard to tell from a photo but to the eye it looks fairly irrelevant as I am not sure it is placed where you would want to land the ball if it were not there.

Thomas Dai

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Re: Was the bunker the first thing you noticed?
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2020, 03:59:24 AM »
At first I wondered if the bunker was there to stop an idiot driving a buggy too close to the cliff edge and suffering a long vertical drop but as the bunker doesn't follow along the entire cliff edge I guess this isn't the reason! Best not tell the H&S brigade!
atb

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Was the bunker the first thing you noticed?
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2020, 05:05:33 AM »
Tongue met cheek as mind raced and fingers typed
Maybe for 2022
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Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Was the bunker the first thing you noticed?
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2020, 06:03:46 AM »
For those who know the course, is the central bunker too big or the overall corridor too narrow to implement the strategy that it is intending?


The idea is a great one if it works in practice. Just looks like the central bunker should be smaller and the fairway cut on the right should flash further up the hill.

Buck Wolter

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Re: Was the bunker the first thing you noticed?
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2020, 10:43:08 AM »
The one on the edge of the cliff is what distracted me --almost looks photoshopped.
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Kalen Braley

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Re: Was the bunker the first thing you noticed?
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2020, 11:49:50 AM »
For me it was the double cut plaid-like fairway.  Then the cliff edge, and finally the center-line bunker.  Guess I failed...

Stephen Davis

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Re: Was the bunker the first thing you noticed?
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2020, 12:39:32 PM »
I have played here dozens of times. It is a wonderful hole on a wonderful course. It is really well placed IMO. The shape of the green determines the best shot coming in. What you cant see is the back pin falls off and is really hard to get to from the left. Right is a good play to any pin, but I think left to a front pin is a bit more favorable as the slope of the hill will hold your ball well where as there is a slight raise on the front right that may kick you ball away from the flag. You could lay up, but the shot is long, so you are definitely given the incentive to either challenge left or right or grab the driver. It is driveable for many, and there is a large collection area left of the pin to a very uphill green. Lots of great stuff going on on this hole. AND yes the cliff is the first thing anyone notices, especially because it is there on the previous hole and is in your mind.

Mike Hendren

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Re: Was the bunker the first thing you noticed?
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2020, 01:40:04 PM »
Assuming the red stakes continue down the left the cliff is a sure one-shot penalty while the bunker is a half-shot penalty.  Also, you can lay up short of the bunker, but not the cliff.

Bogey

Stupid question of the day:  Must there be water to constitute a lateral water hazard?  If so, would the cliff not be marked by white stakes, effectively making the penalty two shots?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2020, 01:45:07 PM by Michael H »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Was the bunker the first thing you noticed?
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2020, 01:43:27 PM »
I should have added that the bunker Ran meant was the centerline bunker. My mistake.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

John_Cullum

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Re: Was the bunker the first thing you noticed?
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2020, 01:51:53 PM »
Stupid question of the day:  Must there be water to constitute a lateral water hazard?  If so, would the cliff not be marked by white stakes, effectively making the penalty two shots?


Lateral hazards are NLE. We now have "penalty areas." No h2o required.
Raynor was a hack

William_G

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Re: Was the bunker the first thing you noticed?
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2020, 11:16:56 PM »
who cares?


did you look at her make-up or her heels, at least you looked.......



any pic or hole is the sum of it's parts


Sand Hollow and Zion are great places


lame post
It's all about the golf!

Brett Wiesley

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Re: Was the bunker the first thing you noticed?
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2020, 12:52:56 AM »
I agree with Stephen, this is a great golf hole.


The cliff edge is already in your mind from the previous hole, and when you get on the tee of this short par 4 you have several options.  All with risk/reward, all in all a great hole.  As mentioned, what you don't see is the infinity edge at the back of the green, and when approaching from the right side then off the left of the green as well.  If you don't nail the drive, then a miss right can be in the opposite cliff area, or if not over the cliff left, and then you have a super challenging chip/flip shot uphill to a narrow green. 


I prefer the layup in front of the center-line-bunker.  210-220 of the tee, which leaves a solid 80-100 into the green depending on the pin placement.  You can lean left/right depending on the pin.

Matt Kardash

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Re: Was the bunker the first thing you noticed?
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2020, 07:10:29 PM »
The first thing I noticed was that I thought the bunker seemed too wide. But I haven't played the hole.
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Pete_Pittock

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Re: Was the bunker the first thing you noticed?
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2020, 07:18:49 PM »
The first 11 holes are almost infinity wide. On the 12th tee you are all of a sudden looking at 40 yards wide. Then 13 is the same.
It seems a lot wider if you are playing a TopFlite instead of a PROV1x or the like.

Drew Harvie

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Re: Was the bunker the first thing you noticed?
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2020, 08:38:04 PM »
This stretch of golf alongside the cliff, starting at the 11th to the 15th, is all world

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