[Carl Rogers]

I will never get to that part of the world, but what does surprise me is that Ran did not give Royal Melbourne West a '10'.  From what I have read and pics viewed through the years, I assumed RMW would be a slam dunk for 4 - '10's'.

[John Kavanaugh]

Even the best custodian rarely gets a 10.

[Ronald Montesano]

I will never get to that part of the world, but what does surprise me is that Ran did not give Royal Melbourne West a '10'.  From what I have read and pics viewed through the years, I assumed RMW would be a slam dunk for 4 - '10's'.

Does he elaborate?

[Tom_Doak]

Funnily enough, Ran is the one who wrote up Royal Melbourne for the Gourmet's Choice, heaping praise upon it.  It probably wasn't the place to talk about his reservations, whatever they are.


I don't know which is more surprising- that our Australian correspondent only gave RM a 9, or that Ran rated two of my courses higher than RM.

[Tommy Williamsen]

This is the only guide where  have not played any of the courses. I do have to get to Australia and NZ before I get too old to enjoy the golf there. Hopefully 2020.

[David McIntosh]

I will never get to that part of the world, but what does surprise me is that Ran did not give Royal Melbourne West a '10'.  From what I have read and pics viewed through the years, I assumed RMW would be a slam dunk for 4 - '10's'.

Ran did give RMW a 10, it was Darius that awarded a 9.

[David_Elvins]

The possibility that RM composite is a far superior course to RMW makes it harder to give RMW a 10 than other comparable courses.

[Matthew Mollica]

At the risk of repeating something I’ve posted several times before on a variety of forums, I’m not certain Composite is far superior to West. When you think of holes like 9,13,16 on West being omitted from the Composite, the gap between the two is perhaps not as broad as people suggest.

[Carl Rogers]

I will never get to that part of the world, but what does surprise me is that Ran did not give Royal Melbourne West a '10'.  From what I have read and pics viewed through the years, I assumed RMW would be a slam dunk for 4 - '10's'.

Ran did give RMW a 10, it was Darius that awarded a 9.

My bad, got confused.

[Mark Chaplin]

The Composite Course isn’t superior, it does have a modern length par 5 but it’s purpose is to be a competition layout to avoid road crossings not a selection of the best 18 of 36 on the property.

[Kevin Pallier]

The Composite Course isn’t superior, it does have a modern length par 5 but it’s purpose is to be a competition layout to avoid road crossings not a selection of the best 18 of 36 on the property.

Sorry Mark - I disagree - IMO the "traditional" composite course routing is superior to RMW.

1 to 4E + 17 & 18E are 6 holes as good as any on the property.

[Matthew Mollica]

2E is not demonstrably better than 9W but it is longer and so better suited to pro play.


16W is arguably better than 4E and better suited to pro play.

[Kevin Pallier]

MM

I love 16W but you really can't fit it in a "composite layout" - whereas you can easily use either 4E or 16E.

17E is the only relatively lesser hole for mine in the six named above. 

[Matthew Mollica]

“Fit into a Composite course” is not the issue at hand Kevin. The question we are considering is whether the Composite is superior to the West, and when holes like 9W and 16W are omitted, the answer is not as straight forward as some might assume.

[Kevin Pallier]

MM

I respect that but I still fail to see how West 1 / 14 / 15 and 18 (for starters) are better than any 4 East holes used in a "composite" routing?

Going further - If we stick to purely hole v hole as a comparison: 1 East v 1 West = no brainer to East same goes for 18  - surely?

As such - for mine - as a whole the 6 East holes add the quality of RM in a "composite" routing and are the reason why I rate the composite course the only 10 in Australia that I've seen.
 

[Jonathan Mallard]

I will never get to that part of the world, but what does surprise me is that Ran did not give Royal Melbourne West a '10'.  From what I have read and pics viewed through the years, I assumed RMW would be a slam dunk for 4 - '10's'.

Ran did give RMW a 10, it was Darius that awarded a 9.

Isn't Darius a member at RM? If he plays there more than TD plays Crystal Downs each year, maybe his familiarity with the course brought it down one point for him.


Not to say that TD doesn't know the ins and outs of CD seeing as he consults there as well and all.

[Matthew Mollica]

MM

I respect that but I still fail to see how West 1 / 14 / 15 and 18 (for starters) are better than any 4 East holes used in a "composite" routing?

Going further - If we stick to purely hole v hole as a comparison: 1 East v 1 West = no brainer to East same goes for 18  - surely?

As such - for mine - as a whole the 6 East holes add the quality of RM in a "composite" routing and are the reason why I rate the composite course the only 10 in Australia that I've seen.
 

Kevin, mentioning 1W and 18W as you have in this discussion doesn’t add much given both holes feature in the Composite course too.


I respect your opinion on what you think is better - Composite or West. Again, I’m suggesting the gap between the two is not as much as people might think. Your view of Composite as the only 10 is your view, and you’re welcome to it. Just as the multiple judges in TCG are welcome to theirs in awarding 10 to the West.

[Mike_Clayton]

Jonathan,


Darius is a member at Peninsula/Kingswood. His issue is with the choice of fairway grass but for me that's nowhere near enough to drop it down a point.

[Kevin Pallier]

Kevin, mentioning 1W and 18W as you have in this discussion doesn’t add much given both holes feature in the Composite course too.

I respect your opinion on what you think is better - Composite or West. Again, I’m suggesting the gap between the two is not as much as people might think. Your view of Composite as the only 10 is your view, and you’re welcome to it. Just as the multiple judges in TCG are welcome to theirs in awarding 10 to the West.

MM

I note your point re: 1W + 18W  but I mentioned 1E + 18E by comparison as I believe they are far superior holes.

I respect your opinions as well and agree - each to their own.

BTW - which composite routing do you prefer the 1998 Presidents Cup or the 2019 version ?

[Brian Walshe]

KP,


I'm not so sure that 1E is better than 1W for the likes of you and 1 particularly with the modern driver.  You bang it long left and pitch up the green.  For the pros (and that is why the Composite exists) 1W is better.  1E is a drivable par 4 for them and probably just a iron left.  Similar at least 18W asks the question about line and length.  You have to work the right combination as the further right you go the more club you need.  18E these days would end up being driver and short iron for the pros.  The green is more interesting in that there are a couple of pin positions tucked behind bunkers that are near impossible for mortals but I think the tee shot on 18W is better. 


When you are comparing those 4 holes you are talking about 4 really good golf holes.  A little like all the comparisons of Barny Dunes and Lost Farm.  For most people there is nothing in it...……..

[Chris Kane]

However highly one rates the Composite Course at RM, I don't agree that it is relevant to assessment of the West.

I'm sure that if (purely hypothetically) Shinnecock Hills and NGLA hit hard times and merged, then created a composite course for tournament play taking the best 18 of the 36 available, that some would judge it superior to either existing course. Would that require SH and NGLA to be automatically downgraded to 9s?

[Jeff Schley]

However highly one rates the Composite Course at RM, I don't agree that it is relevant to assessment of the West.

I'm sure that if (purely hypothetically) Shinnecock Hills and NGLA hit hard times and merged, then created a composite course for tournament play taking the best 18 of the 36 available, that some would judge it superior to either existing course. Would that mean that SH and NGLA must be automatically downgraded to 9s?[/font]

I think that will be Judgement Day or Armageddon or perhaps if something like I am Legend happens.  Perhaps life on earth will cease to exist before that happens.   

[Mark_F]

2E is not demonstrably better than 9W but it is longer and so better suited to pro play.
16W is arguably better than 4E and better suited to pro play.

2 East is a much better hole than 9 West. In addition to its valued length, it features a more intimidating drive, with the threat of OB, and a second shot much more uphill than 9 West.  The green doesn't have the same interesting angle, but the fact that the green is above the approach shot and is so quick, with a greater number of more interesting pin positions puts it well ahead.

16 West is a terribly overrated hole, with bunkers that don't even look like they are from the same course.

3 East is a much more interesting hole than 14 West with the land it sits on.

The first 400 metres of 15 West are a dog hole; the green complex can't make up for that level of public course nonsense preceding.

[Tom_Doak]

Wow, all those miles I flew the past two years and the only thing anybody comments on is whether Darius was too stingy on RMW?


If you're going to argue about Royal Melbourne it would be better to dissect who was right about RME.  There are some great holes in the back paddock as well.

[Matt MacIver]

I look forward to opening #5 over the Christmas holidays.  Since I’ve never played any of the courses, I’ll have lots of opinions. 

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