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Sven Nilsen

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1940 American Eclectic
« on: October 27, 2018, 09:33:26 PM »
If you want to make any improvements to the list, pick a hole that was around in 1940.

Feb. 19, 1940 Journal Herald -


"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Terry Lavin

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Re: 1940 American Eclectic
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2018, 10:06:53 PM »
Great find, my friend!
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Tom_Doak

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Re: 1940 American Eclectic
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2018, 10:26:10 PM »
I guess back in 1940 they didn't have many ground rules for an "eclectic" ... he didn't stick to choosing a first hole for #1.


Imagine building the 13th hole at Pine Valley as your opener!

Peter Pallotta

Re: 1940 American Eclectic
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2018, 10:41:01 PM »
Yes - that it's superintendents (not players or writers/critics or architects) creating the list, and that they turned for advice to the '1940' Robert Trent Jones (when he was still in his mid 30s and with Peachtree still to come) makes for an intriguing and informative list. Plus, it comes (obviously/necessarily) from decades before today's classic-modern framework and also before the 'bifurcation' of courses, eg resort vs championship test or good members course vs tour venue. And telling too (perhaps) that the writer identifies supers as "the men who should know" about top courses, as if (perhaps) the 'demarcation' between design and maintenance was not yet as formalized, or that the line between 'architecture' and 'playability' was more fluid.
P


« Last Edit: October 27, 2018, 11:04:10 PM by Peter Pallotta »

Sven Nilsen

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Re: 1940 American Eclectic
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2018, 12:14:10 AM »
I guess back in 1940 they didn't have many ground rules for an "eclectic" ... he didn't stick to choosing a first hole for #1.


Addressed in the article, if you didn't just skim it to see what holes made the list.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Peter Flory

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Re: 1940 American Eclectic
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2018, 03:04:16 AM »
It's the same selection of holes that was in the 1942 Life Magazine article.  I guess Life must have borrowed it. 






Neil Regan

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Re: 1940 American Eclectic
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2018, 03:41:31 AM »

This is one of the earliest such lists.
It was published also in 1942, in Life Magazine, with pictures.
One of my favorites.
Feast your eyes, and consider how time changes things, and doesn’t.




Grass speed  <>  Green Speed

Neil Regan

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Re: 1940 American Eclectic
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2018, 03:44:51 AM »
PS
Peter,


 I assume you have the picture of Lido’s 4th ?


« Last Edit: October 28, 2018, 03:51:25 AM by Neil Regan »
Grass speed  <>  Green Speed

James Reader

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Re: 1940 American Eclectic
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2018, 03:53:44 AM »
Hard to imagine any picture editor making the mistake with the photos for #4 and #5 these days given the exposure Augusta gets.

Peter Flory

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Re: 1940 American Eclectic
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2018, 04:13:09 AM »
PS
Peter,

 I assume you have the picture of Lido’s 4th ?


I do, thanks. 

Craig Disher

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Re: 1940 American Eclectic
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2018, 09:24:51 PM »
Neil,I'm assuming you have a copy of the magazine. Is there a list of credits for the photos?

Neil Regan

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Re: 1940 American Eclectic
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2018, 10:45:33 PM »
Neil,I'm assuming you have a copy of the magazine. Is there a list of credits for the photos?



Craig,


  I do have a few copies of the magazine, but I used Google Books to capture those pages.
Here are the photo credits for that issue (July 20, 1942). Pages 62 - 63.


Do you recognize any of the photographers ?







Grass speed  <>  Green Speed

Kyle Harris

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Re: 1940 American Eclectic
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2018, 09:30:49 AM »
Hard to imagine any picture editor making the mistake with the photos for #4 and #5 these days given the exposure Augusta gets.


Augusta Country Club? That's what is listed, not Augusta National.
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

Thank you for changing the font of your posts. It makes them easier to scroll past.

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1940 American Eclectic
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2018, 12:48:15 PM »
Certainly not the first list of its kind, as this May 1927 Golf Illustrated article shows.

Interesting to note the holes that make both lists, including the 13th at Pine Valley, the 13th at TCC and the 4th at Lido.







"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Peter Flory

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1940 American Eclectic
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2018, 01:50:11 PM »
Hard to imagine any picture editor making the mistake with the photos for #4 and #5 these days given the exposure Augusta gets.


Augusta Country Club? That's what is listed, not Augusta National.



Same zip code at least. 

Craig Disher

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Re: 1940 American Eclectic
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2018, 07:51:47 PM »
Neil,I don't. I hoped that Charles Mayo would pop up - the last superintendent at Lido who was reported to have taken photos of every hole prior to the course closing.

Neil,I'm assuming you have a copy of the magazine. Is there a list of credits for the photos?



Craig,


  I do have a few copies of the magazine, but I used Google Books to capture those pages.
Here are the photo credits for that issue (July 20, 1942). Pages 62 - 63.


Do you recognize any of the photographers ?







Ted Sirbaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1940 American Eclectic
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2018, 07:57:23 PM »
Interesting to note the holes that make both lists, including the 13th at Pine Valley, the 13th at TCC and the 4th at Lido.


It's especially interesting that the 13th at TCC made both lists. I'd say it's now more of an under the radar great hole, while we tend to focus on 3, 11, and 17 (though 17 has a lot to do with Justin Leonard).

Kyle Casella

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Re: 1940 American Eclectic
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2018, 11:28:09 AM »
Interesting to note the holes that make both lists, including the 13th at Pine Valley, the 13th at TCC and the 4th at Lido.


It's especially interesting that the 13th at TCC made both lists. I'd say it's now more of an under the radar great hole, while we tend to focus on 3, 11, and 17 (though 17 has a lot to do with Justin Leonard).


I always think of it as my favorite hole on the course. The bunker really creeps into the fairway more than you ever think from the tee, no matter how many times you play it. And I love the challenge of that green, especially when the hole is in the front. The trees on the left are certainly a lot more full some now than they were in the photo!

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