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Tommy_Naccarato

Re:The 8th and 14th holes at The Rawls Course
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2003, 11:08:31 AM »
Exactly.

George, having sampled a few of Tom's courses, I can attest that each and everyone of them I have played, are excellent match-play courses. The holes situated in the routing come at the perfect time, and there are very few architects that know how to do this. I think it's a major building block to making a GREAT golf course, and it has nothing so much to do with a set number, but more to the aspect of play.

I hope Tom will correct me if I'm wrong.

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The 8th and 14th holes at The Rawls Course
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2003, 11:57:25 AM »
Emperor:

We agree on something!!!  I've only played two Doak courses, Pacific Dunes and TRC, and my comments after playing each was that while I had great fun, I would hate to have to post a medal score in typical weather under competition.  Both are great match play venues, where will, attitude, and fate more than raw skill come into play.  They are courses that even under normal conditions, character and courage are probably revealed.

As for the two holes in question, I am not sure that length is the major challenge.  Both have extremely difficult, protected  greens.  Into the prevailing wind, the left side of #8 is largely inaccesible, and a putt or chip from the right to the opposite side is an extremely hard up-and-down.  #14 for all but the longest is barely reachable in regulation, and the internal green contours more closely resemble those of a very short hole (though the green is larger).

I am a moderate hitter and into a 20-25 mph south wind I hit driver-3 iron to #8, 3 putted from 60'); on # 14, driver-3 wood, just right, pitched long to a back left pin and into a bunker, a sand shot barely out, a chip, and two putts for an easy 7 (and not a single really poor shot).

The next day with a 20 - 25 mph wind from the north this time, # 8 played driver-8 iron (still made 7 by missing the green left into the bunkered pit), and #14 was a driver-9 iron (barely short of the fringe, chipped a wedge from 65' to 5' and missed the putt for a 5).  It is very true that yardage and par are not meaningful numbers here.  With the wind the way it blows, the firm conditions of the turf, and the numerous pin positions, it can be a different course every day.  If the course is awarded an NCAA final, it would be great fun to watch the boys get around.  

Matt_Ward

Re:The 8th and 14th holes at The Rawls Course
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2003, 01:58:29 PM »
The greatness of a golf hole doesn't need to depend entirely on the wind. That's an added element that can change from day to day -- even moment to moment. One needs to analyze a hole WITHOUT that element and see if it still has merits.

I really liked the 8th and 14th at The Rawls Course. They are both demanding holes and to answer Dan Kelly I have to say they are no less than a toss-up with the 7th at Pac Dunes IMHO.

MarkT

Re:The 8th and 14th holes at The Rawls Course
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2003, 02:48:02 PM »
Quote
If the course is awarded an NCAA final, it would be great fun to watch the boys get around.
No NCAA men's yet but they have landed an NCAA women's regional final in 2005.

Matt_Ward

Re:The 8th and 14th holes at The Rawls Course
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2003, 05:52:29 PM »
Tom Doak:

I just have to wonder was there any consideration when the course was built to have the holes routed in such a way that crosswinds would be a much more pressing issue? I mean as things stand -- it seems there are two dominant wind patterns at The Rawls Course -- SW and NE.

Thnaks ...

P.S. In the yardage book provided by the course it mentions your comments regarding the 8th and how you decided to keep things as they eventually turned out. Was there another option you were considering for that hole?

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