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Dean Stokes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Bunker “raker” in every group.
« on: July 26, 2018, 03:42:56 PM »
I saw on twitter where a PGA tour caddie suggested to speed up tour play there should be a bunker raker in each group at every tour event.


I’m not sure I agree with the idea but wonder what the concencus is here.


Ps. Has anyone shown Mike Davis tapes on how to run a golf tournament and set up a course yet?😀Thanks
Living The Dream in The Palm Beaches....golfing, yoga-ing, horsing around and working damn it!!!!!!!

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker “raker” in every group.
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2018, 04:19:32 PM »
I saw on twitter where a PGA tour caddie suggested to speed up tour play there should be a bunker raker in each group at every tour event.



I’m not sure I agree with the idea but wonder what the concencus is here.


A better solution would be a competent volunteer.  Whatever solution is suggested will not work on the first two days of the tournament because of the field size combined with a.m./p.m waves and 1/10 tee starts. Simply too many players.

Ps. Has anyone shown Mike Davis tapes on how to run a golf tournament and set up a course yet?😀Thanks

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker “raker” in every group.
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2018, 04:19:45 PM »

I saw on twitter where a PGA tour caddie suggested to speed up tour play there should be a bunker raker in each group at every tour event. I’m not sure I agree with the idea but wonder what the concencus is here.
Ps. Has anyone shown Mike Davis tapes on how to run a golf tournament and set up a course yet?😀Thanks



A quicker solution would be to use competent volunteers, But no solution will work on days when you have morning and afternoon waves with split tees and a full field of 156 players. That pretty much quarantees 4:30 rounds because of the wait for your 10th tee to be cleared.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2018, 07:19:04 PM by Pete_Pittock »

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker “raker” in every group.
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2018, 05:42:16 PM »
The problems stopping 3 hour rounds on the PGA Tour is not the time it takes the caddie to rake bunkers. Just a caddie trying to deflect away from the real problem.

Cal Seifert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker “raker” in every group.
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2018, 05:46:47 PM »
I never realized how long it actually takes caddies to rake bunkers and how precisely they do it until marshalling at Shinnecock this year.

Dean Stokes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker “raker” in every group.
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2018, 06:07:45 PM »
I never realized how long it actually takes caddies to rake bunkers and how precisely they do it until marshalling at Shinnecock this year.
In there are two issues - why does it need to be "so precise"? its a hazard. Secondly many of the bunker shots will be to a green so a simple pass of the putter and away the player goes!


I agree with John that the real issue is not being addressed......I presume he's hinting at the players!
Living The Dream in The Palm Beaches....golfing, yoga-ing, horsing around and working damn it!!!!!!!

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Bunker “raker” in every group.
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2018, 06:21:08 PM »
Caddie programs are dying as Tour caddies seek to hire executive assistants.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Greg Chambers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker “raker” in every group.
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2018, 01:15:09 AM »
Why stop at a bunker raker?  Each group should also have a flagstick puller.  And a tee picker upper.  A divot replacer would save countless precious minutes.
"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.”

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker “raker” in every group.
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2018, 01:20:25 AM »
Why stop at a bunker raker?  Each group should also have a flagstick puller.  And a tee picker upper.  A divot replacer would save countless precious minutes.



What about pitchmarks?

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker “raker” in every group.
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2018, 04:35:21 AM »
Why stop at a bunker raker?  Each group should also have a flagstick puller.  And a tee picker upper.  A divot replacer would save countless precious minutes.


Reminds me of story about Darren Clarke and his first wife. He was due to head off on tour for a few weeks and she came to the Club to bring him home to pay the bills before he went.
 
When she finds him, Darren is holding court surrounded by his team and he introduces her to each. “You know Chubby my Manager, and Carl the Mind Coach? Have you met Pete the swing coach, and Harold my putting coach? This is Steve my Personal Trainer and Debbie the Nutritionist…”
 
Unimpressed she insist he has to leave and eventually she gets him home, sits him down and hands him a stack of correspondence.
 
He asks “Darling where’s the letter opener?”
Quick reply “I’ve given her the day off, just do it.”
 
 
(PS the timing of this may be because they have them at The Open. Mostly Greenkeepers who give up a weeks holiday and work on the course during the tournament.  Walking inside the ropes with not a lot to do, is considered something of a perk for them.)
Let's make GCA grate again!

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker “raker” in every group.
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2018, 06:43:51 AM »
Sure, why not?  Why does the average Joe care?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Ashridge, Kennemer, de Pan, Eindhoven, Hilversumche, Royal Ostend, Alnmouth & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker “raker” in every group.
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2018, 07:10:06 AM »
Sure, why not?  Why does the average Joe care?

Ciao


Because it filters back to every day clubs all over the place. And makes golfers feel even less responsible for the course than they already do, and that’s not good for the actual game(different than the business) of golf.
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker “raker” in every group.
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2018, 07:47:52 AM »
Sure, why not?  Why does the average Joe care?

Ciao


Because it filters back to every day clubs all over the place. And makes golfers feel even less responsible for the course than they already do, and that’s not good for the actual game(different than the business) of golf.




By common consent on here, you are not the average Joe.  :)
Let's make GCA grate again!

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker “raker” in every group.
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2018, 08:05:25 AM »
No rakes at all and no bunker raking. They’re hazards just like say ponds (and you don’t usually get a good lie in a pond! :))
And from 1st Jan next year the rules have been changed so you’ll be able to drop out of a sand bunker under penalty.
Atb

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker “raker” in every group.
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2018, 08:29:28 AM »
Sure, why not?  Why does the average Joe care?

Ciao

Because it filters back to every day clubs all over the place. And makes golfers feel even less responsible for the course than they already do, and that’s not good for the actual game(different than the business) of golf.


Really, cuz I don't even see caddies at everyday clubs. But hey, if you want no rakers, pin holders, markers or whatever else, you gotta right. I don't mind seeing tv golf simplified, but its not a high priority  ;)


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Ashridge, Kennemer, de Pan, Eindhoven, Hilversumche, Royal Ostend, Alnmouth & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker “raker” in every group.
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2018, 10:44:27 AM »
Seems like there would be no shortage of volunteers to do this at each tourney...to be up close and personal with a few groups for the week.


But the caddies should be careful what they wish for, I doubt they will be as meticulous or consistent in how they rake them...

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker “raker” in every group.
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2018, 11:24:38 AM »
Just set the bag on a self driving trolley, do away with caddies, and get volunteers to do the rest.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker “raker” in every group.
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2018, 05:53:42 PM »
Interesting how they got round comparatively quickly at Carnoustie this year. Was that because they had expert bunker rakers?

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker “raker” in every group.
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2018, 06:30:00 PM »
Interesting how they got round comparatively quickly at Carnoustie this year. Was that because they had expert bunker rakers?



used a single tee, no split tees

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker “raker” in every group.
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2018, 06:44:47 PM »
I never realized how long it actually takes caddies to rake bunkers and how precisely they do it until marshalling at Shinnecock this year.
In there are two issues - why does it need to be "so precise"? its a hazard. Secondly many of the bunker shots will be to a green so a simple pass of the putter and away the player goes!
On pro tours the answer is that the players get fined if the bunker is not raked perfectly.  I agree with your basic premise, but it isn't fair to the field if the bunkers start off perfect but get progressively worse through the day.  So you either leave them to nature completely or they have to be the same for everyone.

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker “raker” in every group.
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2018, 02:52:22 AM »
I’m sure there would be enough volunteer bunker rakers for tour events IF the caddies pay them $50 each per round. I’d be happy to follow a couple of matches a day at $150 a pop.


Obviously the USGA would charge the volunteer rakers to hire their rake and uniform!
Cave Nil Vino

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