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Wade Whitehead

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Golf or Die
« on: June 07, 2018, 09:24:39 AM »
During a casual conversation this week with Tommy Williamsen, I wondered: What spots on notable golf courses are so dangerous that one could, quite literally, face death?

In particular, I was remembering the 17th tee box at Redlands Mesa.  When I played there, I wondered if anyone had slipped off the edge, even just backing out of another player's eye, as folks tend to do.  See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCiIioVIT10


Gary Player's Raven course at Snowshoe (WV) has a similar spot, immediately next to a green, with no markings at all, and which falls dozens of feet straight down.  I've always wondered about the danger of someone stepping back to read a putt.

I'm not necessarily talking about vistas, where the player is generally well aware of a precipitous drop.  I can't see someone falling off the edge at Pebble, for example.

Architects, you must consider this when designing/building, no?  Has there ever been a significant change to a feature because of this sort of liability?

I would assume an increase in liability (and insurance costs) associated with this kind of thing.

WW
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 09:30:53 AM by Wade Whitehead »

Greg Smith

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Re: Golf or Die
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2018, 10:09:17 AM »
I am thinking Cape Kidnappers.  I remember seeing warning signs on the pictures of that place -- and it's not like there are guardrails on the cliffs.   I bet Tom Doak can answer what liability issues may have been considered during the planning of that course.
O fools!  who drudge from morn til night
And dream your way of life is wise,
Come hither!  prove a happier plight,
The golfer lives in Paradise!                      

John Somerville, The Ballade of the Links at Rye (1898)

Ian Mackenzie

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Re: Golf or Die
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2018, 10:53:19 AM »
Interesting topic.


The only real danger I have faced on a golf course, aside from obvious precipitous elevation drops, is from wildlife.
In the late 90's I was in the Banff, Alberta area playing a course called Silvertips (or something...it was pretty, but unremarkable. Certainly not even close to Banff Springs.)


While cart-balling along in an outing...;-)...we encountered a significant delay on hole #4 as a black bear was on the tee box happily gnawing on a cob of corn. The bear did not let us play through.


My best friend here in Chicago recently played Mike Devries' Cape Wickham and he describes having the "shit scared out of him" upon seeing a Tiger snake from about 10-15 yards away. Apparently one small bite can be rather lethal and would require immediate evacuation to a hospital as death is 3 hours from contact.

Kalen Braley

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Re: Golf or Die
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2018, 11:41:10 AM »
Hmmm lets see.


Cliff edges, getting hit in the head by a ball, snake bites, wild animals, heat stroke, golfers fighting with each other.....golf is super dangerous!  ;)


P.S.  i'm guessing cliff edges would be the most likely culprit and Cabot Cliffs appears to have some lethal ones near the action...
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 11:50:32 AM by Kalen Braley »

JLahrman

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Re: Golf or Die
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2018, 11:47:10 AM »
Depends on how you define it...many courses have hills significant enough that it's possible to flip a cart if someone takes a route that he/she shouldn't. I thought the roofs on carts were for sun protection, but maybe they have a dual purpose as rollbars. Seems like a lot more carts didn't have tops 30 years ago.

Emile Bonfiglio

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Re: Golf or Die
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2018, 11:48:29 AM »
15th hole of Eastmoreland in Portland Oregon. Borders an industrial area and a railroad track, vagrants and drug addicts all over. Fastest hole I walk during every round there.
You can follow me on twitter @luxhomemagpdx or instagram @option720

Ed Brzezowski

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Re: Golf or Die
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2018, 12:52:44 PM »
I was told by a friend there are a few holes on Old Head where when the fog rolls in you just sit down and wait it out. He claims folks have wandered off and over the cliffs.
We have a pool and a pond, the pond would be good for you.

Pete_Pittock

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Re: Golf or Die
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2018, 01:34:50 PM »
The Duel Hole at SFGC.

Ian Mackenzie

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Re: Golf or Die
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2018, 01:40:18 PM »
Come on...where's the "Lightning and the 1-iron" joke...?..;-)

Kalen Braley

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Re: Golf or Die
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2018, 01:51:30 PM »
Maybe the title of this thread should be changed to "Golf AND Die"


P.S.  And I haven't seen the threat of the wife beating you into submission cause you golf too much!

Pete_Pittock

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Re: Golf or Die
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2018, 03:34:42 PM »

16th tee (elevated) at Lookout Mountain, GA.


Alligators,  steep, twisty cart paths, steep twisty cart paths with alcohol.



« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 04:12:40 PM by Pete_Pittock »

Cal Seifert

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Re: Golf or Die
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2018, 04:02:59 PM »
Didn’t someone once get hit in the head by a ball on a green at pasatiempo from an errant tee shot and pass away?

Ian Mackenzie

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Re: Golf or Die
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2018, 05:38:02 PM »
Didn’t someone once get hit in the head by a ball on a green at pasatiempo from an errant tee shot and pass away?


In all seriousness, and the Judge will know this for sure, some poor guy was killed at Dunes Club a few years ago when a tree fell on him.


http://www.harborcountry-news.com/news/tree-felled-by-wind-kills-golfer-at-dunes-club/article_5330998a-0118-5805-866e-4357fde2dba5.html




Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Golf or Die
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2018, 06:12:00 PM »
Wolf Creek in Mesquite, NV. Steep cart paths on an unwalkable course. May have been been a death there before guard rails were installed. Here's a "blast from the past" thread:


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,23586.75.html
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Peter Pallotta

Re: Golf or Die
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2018, 06:29:55 PM »
Wade - just to say: great subject line/thread title!
With a revised theme & wider topic, it could serve wonderfully well as the title of a new book -- well, as *part* of a title, since book titles have gotten very long and descriptive these days:

GOLF OR DIE
Give Me Freedom or Give Me Death 
A Study on the 21st Century Renaissance in Golf Course Architecture and
How it Saved the Game, Revolutionized the Industry, and Helped us Better Understand what it Means to Be Alive
     
 



Greg Gilson

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Re: Golf or Die
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2018, 07:08:10 PM »
Pretty much any fairway on TOC

mike_beene

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Re: Golf or Die
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2018, 08:18:47 PM »
Years ago I was at Peston Trail when the Nelson was there and a tree by the fourth hole had a. branch break and fall on a guy and killed him. I heard it from the 5 th but didn't see it. Not a windy day. Just freak

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Golf or Die
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2018, 08:36:45 PM »
Wolf Creek in Mesquite, NV. Steep cart paths on an unwalkable course. May have been been a death there before guard rails were installed. Here's a "blast from the past" thread:


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,23586.75.html


I thought about Wolf Creek as well. After playing it, if forced to play it again, I'd choose death.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Golf or Die
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2018, 08:39:02 PM »
Of course there is the famous Henry Longhurst quote, who on seeing Killarney Golf and Fishing Club, remarked, "What a lovely place to die."
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

SL_Solow

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Re: Golf or Die
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2018, 09:14:48 PM »
I know some fellows who drove a cart over the precipice on #8 at Pebble.  They jumped in time but the cart and clubs were lost.  At Oak Park, we heard an ancient oak creaking in a breeze near a tee.  @ hours later it came down across the tee.  Fortunately, no one was on the tee.

Jim Tang

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Re: Golf or Die
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2018, 09:59:53 PM »
I took this photo at Cabot Cliffs in July of 2016.  Most devoted caddie, ever?


« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 10:31:53 PM by Jim Tang »

James Brown

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Re: Golf or Die
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2018, 10:12:02 PM »
Most of the holes at Old Head. 


8 at Pebble. I believe several actually have. 




mike_beene

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Re: Golf or Die
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2018, 11:18:21 PM »
The Pasatiempo reference above is to the par 3 green either 7 or 8. I think there is a screen there now.

Kalen Braley

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Re: Golf or Die
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2018, 11:34:41 AM »
My buddy was playing the Island green at Couer D Alene years ago in the rain.  After he swung, it slipped out and went in the lake.  Without skipping a beat, the caddie stripped to his skivvies and jumped in after it, despite my buddy protesting.  After diving down several times, and staying under water for what seemed like forever, he couldn't find it.


A week later, he got a package in the mail, his club....  ;)

Joe Hancock

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Re: Golf or Die
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2018, 11:38:10 AM »
  After he swung, it slipped out and went in the lake.


Leaves ones’ imagination to run wild.....

" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

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