[Steve_ Shaffer]

The companion course to one of the better public courses in the PHX area- Verrado GC, formerly Raven at Verrado
( Lehman,Fought) opens soon.




I will be playing there soon. Send me a PM if you're available.

[Matthew Petersen]

That course tour is of the original Verrado course. Very much looking forward to checking out Victory, nonetheless.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Ooops.... deleted.


Here's a current article from AZ Golf Ass'n magazine:


http://content.yudu.com/web/10dc/0A15h82/AZGI-12-16/flash/resources/index.htm

[Matthew Petersen]

Opening now pushed to "February" ... still no specific date given.

[Matthew Petersen]

Course tour is up: http://www.verradogolfclub.com/golf-information/course-tour-victory/


Looks intriguing. Not too many bunkers and seemingly lots of contour--though I am always iffy as to how those digital tours represent actual contour on the ground.

[Bill Buthorn]

I spend the winter at Verrado.  Watching that course go in has been an interesting process.  If anything, the terrain is even more rugged than it appears.  You better hit it straight, the rocks are literally next to the course.
At one time, this was going to be a shorter, more in line with 55 plus types.  I see that plan was changed!  Should be fun to play.
I would love to join a group of GCA types to play it sometime.

[Matthew Petersen]

I also remember a lot of Lehman publicity about it being a wide-open course, not many bunkers, etc. It looks like they've largely delivered on that.Obviously any desert course has severe restrictions. But there aren't a ton of bunkers and it looks like there's a lot of interest just from terrain.


It's definitely an interesting site. Verrado was once the "proving ground" for Caterpillar, hence the 'scar' road up the mountain and, I believe, the unusual boulders in the area where this course is located.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

The GM of my community, a PGA pro who lives at Verrado, just sent me this.

Just went by there yesterday, I had heard Jan. 7th to open, then Jan. 21st, and they are still not open.  I don’t see where they will be opening soon as they have a temporary trailer for the pro shop that is still empty and a cart barn not completed (with no carts).  They just asphalted their parking lot last week.  The course looks ready to play, but no infrastructure.
Let's get a group to play there. Send me a PM and I'll organize.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

From someone in the know:


The course will open [/size]next Monday[/color][/size] 2/13 and green fees will be $99 ($69/twilight). They are using a temporary, modular pro shop. [/color][/size]They are planning to close the course again from May until September to allow the Bermuda grass a summer season to fill in more thoroughly. There are 5 sets of tees ranging from 7250 yards down to 4560 yards. The winter rye grass came in very, very well. The tees, fairways and greens are in outstanding condition. The course kind of reminds me of a rock quarry. There are rocks and big boulders of all shapes and sizes in the desert areas, but very little vegetation. The only water hazard on the entire course is on #18. The are some sand traps but not a lot. And the sand is really nice.The greens are pretty large and mostly gently contoured. The fairways are quite wide and have various contours and some have features such a large rock wall or split fairways.[/color]

[JHoulihan]

Today is February 11th and the course was just opened to the public yesterday the 10th. The pro shop is a small trailer but nice inside. Not a 6000 square foot monster but does its intended job to get yout access to the first tee. I played from the Silver tees 6543 yards. The 5 sets of tees range from 4646 5403 5981 6543 and 7258 from the tips. The practice tee is set in a valley with very nice Taylor Made balls available in mini golf bags vs normal buckets.


Hole 1 is a bit of a ride from the putting green but well worth the wait. It plays facing the east Valley with rock prominent everywhere. Hole 2 is a short par 3 with two semi truck sized boulders the most prominent features with one in play just along the back side of the green. Hole 3 is a straight par 5 reachable in 2. The fairway is rolling with very few flat lies. Holes 4 to 7 were not as easily remembered but still good. Hole 4 plays downhill with a large rock group in the middle of the driving area. It is well short of the landing area so is more visually trouble than physically. the green is huge left to right but only 1/3 to 1/2 can be see from the fairway. The green has multiple levels with a 2 putt more than great task. Only looking from behind the green back up hill toward tee can you see all of the features at once. Hole 5 is a par 3 with wide green left to right but very narrow front to back. Hole 6 is relatively short with a valley to the left side of the fairway capable of grabbing drives but completely blind from the tee. Hole 7 is a short par 4 with several bunkers in play between tee and green. The back to front slope of the green may make long shots filter onto the green but also makes a two putt very difficult. Hole 8 is a par 5 playing 632 from the tips! Very wide driving area followed by a tight right turn playing entirely up hill. The green is huge with a crease in the middle (barritz) with 2 putts very good from anywhere on the green complex. Hole 9 has an amazing view of the valley below playing mainly downhill contrasting hole 8. Hole 10 has a wide driving area with much of the area hidden from the tee. A large mound sits to the front right corner of the green hiding much of the green surface especially when in the right corner. Hole 11 is a sharp dogleg left with a deep valley directly in line with the driving area. Hole 12 is a large ride across the street. The par 3 plays slightly downhill with a large mound sitting directly behind the green to stop and downwind blows from bounding into the rock filled obstacle. Hole 13 is a difficult tee shot with a double fairway present but unable to be seen from the tee. To far left off the tee will leave you a totally blind second shot back up hill. Hole 14 is a possible reachable par 4 playing 309 from the tips. A large rock wall is visible from the tee but a large area short and left of the green makes getting up and down for birdie more than possible. Hole 15 is an uphill par 5 with homes along both sides. There are homes elsewhere but note along both sides here. Hole 16 is a par 3 with a large bunker fronting the rolling green. Chipping areas surround the green and make getting up and down from off the green very possible. Hole 17 plays downhill with a very large mound in the middle of the fairway making the landing area hidden. A large valley to right side of the fairway grabs many tee shots but is reasonably shallow allowing easy exit and possible birdie opportunities with a short iron or wedge. Hole 18 has the best view on the entire course. It plays 60-80 yards downhill to the protected fairway. You must first carry the only noted water hazard on the course followed by a huge pile of rocks standing 20 plus feet high. A large single rock tempts you to carry it but lies 260 yards from the tips making most play safe and left of danger. The rest of the hole plays back uphill with a huge rock fronting the right side of the green making nearly the entire green surface blind.


I played a reasonable 43 43 86. So far it is my favorite course in the valley even if only a few days old. The article notes that the course will be closed May to September for growing grass but that should allow play with the nicest weather available until summer heat starts. Any locals in the area fell free to PM me if wanting to join up.


Justin

[Matthew Petersen]

Played out here today on a last minute invite from a friend and I have to agree it's worth checking out.


It's a very unique course--there's really nothing else like it in Arizona, or in desert golf. The only thing my friend and I could think of was that it vaguely has elements of Engh in places, but it doesn't really feel or play anything like an Engh course. It (mostly, not always) very wide open, with minimal bunkering, especially around the greens. Most of the course's defense is the greens--those tend to be big and with dramatic swales and runoffs.


Right now, the greens are definitely on the fuzzy side--uphill putts have to be hammered and downhill putts are tricky because the grass is impeding the gravity. I would guess within a month or so the height of cut will be coming down. Tees and fairways were in good shape overall.


Holes of note:


#8
A big par 5 playing long and largely uphill. Just a nicely naturally flowing hole that moves over and around a wash without any forced carry. The green is 50 yards deep with a Biarritz-style swale running through the middle.


#10
I enjoyed every hole out there, but through the course really got fun after the turn. 10 plays significantly downhill to a huge landing area--the fairway is wide with a bunker down the right--and then a good 30 more yards of rough right of the bunker. This is a remarkable and rare thing in Arizona desert golf. If they ever overused the rough (unlikely) or in late summer when the Bermuda rough gets thick and long and wet, the rough on the course will be a huge penalty. For now, missing over there means a fine lie, a poor angle, and somewhat blind. No biggie. The course is very playable with dormant rough.


The feature that makes the hole is a big mound to the right front of the green. A drive in the fairway can use this mound to kick a ball heading right of the green back onto it, helping to take some of the course's few green side bunkers to the left out of play. If you missed the fairway to the right, that mount complicates shots, especially anything toward the back of the green.


#11


A dogleg left, not long but with a really narrow ribbon of fairway that snakes between a bunker right and a very deep hollow on the left. Though the fairway is narrow, the playing corridor is very wide--but most of that area is the hollow on the left. The course isn't on GPS and has no yardage cards yet--I don't know how long you have to be to carry that low area--much longer than I was today and I gave it a good poke. Again, though, right now with low dormant bermuda rough, the penalty is pretty much all visual--it's a blind and steeply uphill shot from down there (but it was 9/8 iron from a decent lie). If the rough os heavy, this becomes a really tough hole (but still one that's very playable).


#13
From the tee, really all you can see are huge mounds that dominate the center of the fairway. The fairway is wide and offers ample room right and left of the mounds. The green is shallow but very wide with a big tier dividing high left and low right. Multiple plays may reveal that being to one side of the fairway is preferred based on the day's hole location.


#14
A drivable par 4 where a rock ledge dominates the view from the tee. The green is narrow but deep with several different levels. If not going for it, the play is really either way left or way right to avoid the rock ledge and a nasty bunker some 40 fish yard short of the green. Balls green high and left will be in short grass but well below the level of the green. A fun hole that would seem to play quite differently depending on the hole location.


#17
Sort of an inverse version of the 13th. Another super wide fairway but with a giant swale cut through it at an angle. The play is probably to lay back short of the swale in the fairway, which would still leave just a short iron in, but based on the hills that area where you want to hit to is sort of blind from the tee, so it's uncomfortable. The green has a lot of slope back to front and maybe due to that our group had more trouble trying to play blind shots out of the low area here than we generally did from other similar spots.

[Bill Buthorn]

I have now played the course twice.  I am still not sure what to think of it.  It is, no doubt, the most unique course in the area, maybe the state.  I have never played anything quite like it.  My friend, who lives in western Colorado, and plays Redlands Mesa some, said some of the course reminds him of there.  An earlier comment reflecting Jim Engh seems right.  Another wag suggested golf on the moon, which also seems right, especially the first hole.


There are few greenside hazards, only one water hazard, and very wide fairways.  The greens are huge and undulating.  As I played, I looked around for obvious tricky pin placements, and there are many.  However, the course is not overly difficult, and the front tees have eliminated forced carries and hero shots, but the further back you go, the more heroic you can be.


The biggest downside for me are the long traverses from most greens to tees.  The course is not walkable, and long rounds will be the norm.  In many cases, the cart paths are a distance from the greens, so just getting to the green, and walking off will be time consuming. 


It is obvious the course is laid out for a housing development.  Even though most holes are out in the rocks now, play on 15, and less so on 16 and 17, show what it will be like in the future.  Play it now while it still has a wild element that makes it fun.


For me, the two best holes are 9 and 18.  Actually, 9 is one of the better holes in the area.  It plays downhill, 450 or so, a par 4.  The green is on a small cape that sticks out into a wash.  this is one hole with a grenade bunker that helps keep wayward shots out of the wash.  It is possible to play left of the green and pitch up, so there are a lot of options.  A very good demanding hole.


18 is a really fun, bite off a chunk over water from an elevated tee. It is a par 5 and the second shot forces the player to deal with a very large rock in the layup area, and the green is surrounded on three sides by solid granite outcroppings.


At some point, I will get out and take a few pictures.  I know most of you will be interested. 

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Update:


http://www.golf.com/extra-spin/2017/04/01/gun-shots-send-golfers-running-arizona-course

[JHoulihan]

Played this course again today after originally playing it just after opening in February 2017. I did remember nearly every hole from last time (which for me is a very good thing being able to remember that many features). Just wanted to give a few updates for those yet to play this course on the west side of Phoenix.
1. The small trailer used previously is gone and upgraded with a new clubhouse. There is an indoor area but what is most notable is the completely open outdoor area to the southside of the building. It overlooks the White mountains and the 18th hole directly below.
2. All of the cart paths have been upgraded with some sites previously being done in rock only to now being 100 paved. Luckily 98% are along the fairway and rearely if ever traverse across your line of sight.
3. Multiple bathroom structures are being built but not yet completed.
4. The whole area just reminds me of what it must feel like on the moon. Rocks and pebbles everywhere when off the fairway cut. There is also a very clear line of grasses used. I am not sure what exact strains are in place. In many areas especially near the greens there are clear lines of rough, fairway, and green. They differ in both length and color when compared to the fairway cut. Maybe this was peresent in February, but just noted in multiple areas during this round.
5. Each hole has its own feel, but you just saw wow when stading on the 8 tee. Playing 630 from the back tees you know you must hit 3 well exectuted shots to make it on the green in regulation. I played with a young kid who hit the ball miles and even he was well short of the green complex with a good drive and nearly 300 yard 3 wood.
6. The greens are in great shape after the areas overseeding schedule. There were few pitch marks noted. The speed was fast but not overwhelming. Probably a bit faster than I would like for the number of green slopes and hollows but putting is not the best part of my game.
7. Hole 9 is a brute. I did not remember this hole playing particularly hard last round, but as the #1 handicap you should at least pat attention. A tight landing area for your downhill drive leaves about 200 years to a green with trouble on all sides. Par 4 here is a great score with 5 probably being a more realistic score for many.
8. Hole 13 is a tough driving hole. You are not quite sure where to aim exactly since the green is not visible from either the back/black of more forward grey or white tee area. It is a huge hill in the center of the split fairway. The right side is a continuous cut of fairway softly curving toward the green. The left side sits about 5-10 feet below the level of the right with a middle to short iron approach after a good drive. Par 4 here is a great score.
9. Hole 14 is a great fun hole. Driveable for longer hitters, but this hole leaves those with less length many tougher options. There are 2 basically walls of rocks in the lay up area making unsure that those who are unable to clear the wall on the drive just how far to lay back so that the wall height does not interfere with there short but precise approach shot. Hole high left is a great spot to miss for the longer hitter but leaves an approach with a wedge to a green perched up 10-15 feet above you many times only being able to see the top of the flagstick for reference.
10. Hole 15 is a brute Par 5 playing uphill toward the surronding White mountains. Homes and rocks are present on both sides with a big number lurking for those trying to get an extra 10 yards off the tee. The green is very large back to front but a precise wedge allows for birdie opportunites for those who keep the ball in play.
11. Hole 17 played a bit easier during round #2. After knowing the layup distances I hit 4 hybrid off the tee leaving a 7 iron into a downhill green. This sloping green is no easy 2 putt with the end of the round coming quickly to a close.
12. Par 5 18th hole is by far the most dramatic tee area that I have played in the area. Just as memorable as when I played here in February. Carrying the lake/large rock is just the first obstacle to compete with. What folows is a uphill 2nd/3rd shot with a huge boulder grouping near the front right side. Just like the Par 5 15th, a precise wedge can lead to a birdie putt if you keep your ball in play off the tee.
13. Playing in carts only, with grren to tee walks being VERY long may detract it in many books but
this is more the norm for 98% of courses in the valley. Cart GPS is still not available, but they do have yardage books printed for $10 so you are not totally lost like when newly opened.

I also would like to retract my favorite statement from post 1. This course is not may favorite in the valley, but it is the most memorable to date. I still favor Ak Chin Southern Dunes, Talking Stick North, and We Ko Pa Saguaro just ahead of this layout, but #4 is not bad! 

[Matthew Petersen]

he new clubhouse is excellent. Small with a nice patio area where you can sit and watch players coming up 18.


There are some nice holes on the front, but I really like the back 9 on this course. Too bad it will be the first to be surrounded by homes. So it goes in Arizona.


13 is a roller coaster bunkerless hole, with a huge hump in the middle of the fairway. You can play short of it but that leaves a long way home, playing right of it makes the hole a bit longer and the angle worse. Or you can try to carry the hump but know that a pulled shot of that distance will find the desert. The green has a huge step in the middle making the left side higher than the right and the shallow green does make a shorter approach much more appealing. A fun and really unique hole.


17 is another bunkerless hole and again land movement disrupts the fairway but inverse to 13 here it's a rough-filled depression that adds the challenge. A fairway-cut hump in the fairway hides this trouble, making the layup a bit tricky. Most times of the year you can also play a driver down into the depression without much to fear but you won't want to try that when the bermuda rough is thick (monsoon season) and at other times, it's still bringing in risk. The green is notably sloped and protected in the right front by a large knob that demands a clever shot.


10, 11, 14, and 18 are also real standout holes, several of which use manufactured ground movement to great success.

[astavrides]

If I only have time to play Victory or Founders', and I have never played either, which should I play? I think Founders was in the top 5 publics in Az according to Golfweek, but in the mid 20s according to Golf mag.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Alex,


Verrado is highly rated in Golfweek. Victory may not be rated yet since it is new and opened earlier this year. Both are very good. Victory, as noted, not a typical desert course as it was the former proving grounds for Caterpllar construction vehicles and rocks and boulders give it a distinct look. Verrado is more of a desert course.

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