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Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #100 on: October 31, 2017, 02:57:42 PM »

Swing for the fences ... its the best way to be!
Good luck with this project.
With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #101 on: February 13, 2018, 04:53:58 PM »
Looks like Zac did some homework before the AT&T. 


Not a bad way to spend a week in NorCal!


http://golfweek.com/2018/02/13/the-forecaddie-pure-jealousy-over-zac-blairs-pre-pebble-beach-golf-trip/

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #102 on: February 13, 2018, 05:07:23 PM »
I think before I bid my next road job I'll fly business over to Germany and drive the autobahn. When my bid doesn't make the cut do you think my competition will be jealous?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 05:10:17 PM by John Kavanaugh »

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #103 on: February 13, 2018, 07:06:57 PM »
I think before I bid my next road job I'll fly business over to Germany and drive the autobahn. When my bid doesn't make the cut do you think my competition will be jealous?


Just for the record, driving on the Autobahn is pretty cool. And my story of getting pulled over by the East German Police in 1984 has carried me for a lot of 19th holes over the years.


PS - Yes, it was in East Germany traveling from Berlin to Frankfurt.
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If weíve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. Weíre no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Jack Carney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #104 on: February 13, 2018, 11:06:43 PM »
Just to touch on some interesting points on this thread....



The things I would like to note... TBC will be extremely walkable, it will have as much variety as you'd ever want, and I think you will walk off a large amount of holes saying "wow that was an unbelievable golf hole"
this place is 40 minutes from an international airport that travel is super easy. and I'm trying to get the best individuals I can to make this place as awesome as I could imagine. If you create an awesome golf course and couple that with creating an awesome experience what would stop you from wanting to be involved?


For the haters...


Im extremely confident I can make a world class golf club and an amazing golf course even if some people on this site don't think its possible.


I believe if you make an extremely fun golf course that is based on golden age philosophies with more modern yardages you can create something very special.


What I want out of a membership is something someone on this thread pointed out... I want to have a great group of people who truly love golf! If you can get guys that understand that and you deliver an awesome golf course that is enjoyable I think they'll be in for a treat.


Enough with all you guys complaining about trying to compare this place to PV and NGLA... you never know till its done and like I said earlier I'm extremely confident I can deliver a world class course. I really believe it will be in the discussions of greatest modern tracks... and if I do that I think its fair to say eventually down the road it can be in the discussions with some of the courses I've mentioned.


It would be nice to get some people excited about this project instead of the mass majority of people on here always complaining and shooting people down.
You'd think if you were on this site you'd want to help make this project better instead of bringing it down and saying "this isn't going to work" or "its never going to be like that place" and all that noise.


Im very excited to be making this thing happen so Utah can have a place where groups of people that love golf and gca can come and have a blast.


Im excited for those who want to help to reach out and make this better... Im also extremely pleased with the routing and the holes that have been laid out. TBC is going to leave a lot of you very surprised, hopefully the haters can leave and think to themselves "wow that was a lot of fun and a lot better than I thought"


Its funny that so many of you are so negative towards this project... its almost as if you'd rather see it fail than see another world beater created... those are the exact people you won't see at TBC...


also here is look at the redan going in at TBC... hope the fans enjoy and hopefully I can can change the opinions of some of the haters..
https://twitter.com/TheBuckClub/status/921555041730703360


GO ZAC GO!!!!!!!

zb

Jack Carney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #105 on: February 13, 2018, 11:08:13 PM »
Go ZAC GO!!!!!

Matthew Mollica

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #106 on: February 14, 2018, 07:25:53 PM »
I think before I bid my next road job I'll fly business over to Germany and drive the autobahn. When my bid doesn't make the cut do you think my competition will be jealous?


Would you learn anything on your travels, that improved your subsequent bids JK?
"The truth about golf courses has a slightly different expression for every golfer. Which of them, one might ask, is without the most definitive convictions concerning the merits or deficiencies of the links he plays over? Freedom of criticism is one of the last privileges he is likely to forgo."

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #107 on: February 14, 2018, 08:29:04 PM »
Sure I always learn something new by traveling the world and enjoying new experiences. But sadly after thirty years of doing the same thing I find profits are found by perfecting what I already know.

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #108 on: February 14, 2018, 09:04:52 PM »
But sadly after thirty years of doing the same thing I find profits are found by perfecting what I already know.


Ran,
How long did I promise in Maine to not post snarky comments!!  ??? :'( :D


John,


If you can find any comments from Zac about profits, please post them. My impression is he is doing this for the love of the game.


It takes so much energy, patience and dedication to be a good member at a great club that at best I'd be a shitty owner of a poor one.


Go buy Pioppi's latest book, read the Forward by Zac and get back to us on profits. How many great courses were started for profit? For crying out loud, you are probably the #1 poster on a golf website that has never made "profits". Let's all head over to www.golf.com, sell some Rater outings, and make some profits.



"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If weíve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. Weíre no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #109 on: February 14, 2018, 10:03:40 PM »
But sadly after thirty years of doing the same thing I find profits are found by perfecting what I already know.


Ran,
How long did I promise in Maine to not post snarky comments!!  ??? :'( :D


John,


If you can find any comments from Zac about profits, please post them. My impression is he is doing this for the love of the game.


It takes so much energy, patience and dedication to be a good member at a great club that at best I'd be a shitty owner of a poor one.


Go buy Pioppi's latest book, read the Forward by Zac and get back to us on profits. How many great courses were started for profit? For crying out loud, you are probably the #1 poster on a golf website that has never made "profits". Let's all head over to www.golf.com, sell some Rater outings, and make some profits.






Mike-I canít imagine that Zac isnít concerned with turning a profit regardless of what he has written. That doesnít make him nefarious but rather ďtypicalĒ for any prospective new business owner. He has a lot of support on this website and deservedly so but letís not put him up on the cross yet. Additionally I think you need to do you homework as Golf Magazine doesnít sell Rater outings.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #110 on: February 14, 2018, 10:06:57 PM »
Tim, et, al.


Typical JK Barney trolling...nothing to see here!  ;)




Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #111 on: February 14, 2018, 10:48:14 PM »
Tim, et, al.


Typical JK Barney trolling...nothing to see here!  ;)


Kalen-You are right but not much of a troll if you ask me. I am pretty sure that at least a couple of the Bandon courses are considered great and although Mike Keiser didnít put it in print anywhere that he was in fact hoping to make a profit itís a fools errand to think otherwise.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 10:51:50 PM by Tim Martin »

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #112 on: February 14, 2018, 11:31:55 PM »
I am pretty sure that at least a couple of the Bandon courses are considered great and although Mike Keiser didnít put it in print anywhere that he was in fact hoping to make a profit itís a fools errand to think otherwise.


I am pretty sure that at least a couple of the Bandon courses are considered great and although Mike Keiser didnít put it in print anywhere that he was in fact hoping to make a profit itís a fools errand to think otherwise.



Tim,


Mike Keiser was very good (I am told and have read) at re-creating a Scottish Links (many) on the remote land of Oregon. It is great for the West Coast crowd that can't travel to Europe so easily. For me, I have never been interested in visiting Bandon when I can get to Europe with the same effort and play classic courses with local members. I like warm beer and historical museums too, so Europe is my preference when I get time back in my life in a year or so.


I think Zac is the next level of golf course architecture/developer. He is a Top 150 player, trying to re-create the 9 hole simplicity of his youth, while trying to create classic elements (hopefully greens) on a modern course at elevation for the modern player. Oh yea, he wants to create a "modern club" culture which is a fast moving target. It is a lot to take on, but he seems curious and collaborative which is a very good combination for such a project.


Yes, he reminds me of George Crump - http://golfclubatlas.com/in-my-opinion/thomas-macwood-george-arthur-crump-portrait-of-a-legend/


And I know that Golf.com does not do rater outings. In was an inside joke between John K and myself that I should have left out.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 11:36:02 PM by Mike Sweeney »
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If weíve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. Weíre no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #113 on: February 14, 2018, 11:57:08 PM »
I am pretty sure that at least a couple of the Bandon courses are considered great and although Mike Keiser didnít put it in print anywhere that he was in fact hoping to make a profit itís a fools errand to think otherwise.


I am pretty sure that at least a couple of the Bandon courses are considered great and although Mike Keiser didnít put it in print anywhere that he was in fact hoping to make a profit itís a fools errand to think otherwise.



Tim,


Mike Keiser was very good (I am told and have read) at re-creating a Scottish Links (many) on the remote land of Oregon. It is great for the West Coast crowd that can't travel to Europe so easily. For me, I have never been interested in visiting Bandon when I can get to Europe with the same effort and play classic courses with local members. I like warm beer and historical museums too, so Europe is my preference when I get time back in my life in a year or so.


I think Zac is the next level of golf course architecture/developer. He is a Top 150 player, trying to re-create the 9 hole simplicity of his youth, while trying to create classic elements (hopefully greens) on a modern course at elevation for the modern player. Oh yea, he wants to create a "modern club" culture which is a fast moving target. It is a lot to take on, but he seems curious and collaborative which is a very good combination for such a project.


Yes, he reminds me of George Crump - http://golfclubatlas.com/in-my-opinion/thomas-macwood-george-arthur-crump-portrait-of-a-legend/


And I know that Golf.com does not do rater outings. In was an inside joke between John K and myself that I should have left out.



Mike-Who careís where you like to play as it relates to the question of profit motives?Misdirection and links to other threads have nothing to do with the assertions you made to JK.

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club
« Reply #114 on: February 15, 2018, 01:50:35 AM »
While I have read the thread and appreciate the skepticism, I have to believe all of us here at GCA are pulling hard for TBC to be a success.  I think the destination course idea has been proven, if done to a high standard which Zac promises, so let us assume (which is a big assumption) that it is maybe a couple notches below Sand Hills which would still be outstanding. Maybe a Dismal River (which I will be playing this summer for my first time btw) a solid Doak 8.  The question is can it attract the members for sustainability.  We are then talking financing and how they manage their cash, which will include: initial investment payments + interest + maintenance cost + operations cost = X.  Then you have to take initiation fees + interest + dues + ancillary income (outings, merchandise, food/bev, lodging) = Y.

You have to make sure Y is greater than X for sustainability. 

I love the idea of innovation and golf course entrepreneurship for you never know when you may find a niche that hasn't been fully tapped.  Once you do, a pivot is always there and a sign of a good entrepreneur is the ability to pivot when needed. 
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Buck Club New
« Reply #115 on: February 15, 2018, 06:30:07 AM »
Maybe a Dismal River (which I will be playing this summer for my first time btw) a solid Doak 8. 




It might be time to kill The Doak Scale, and Zac could be the guy to do it :)


Think about what is The Doak Scale really is. It raised the level of average so that Tom's future clients would see his vision of building higher level courses. He basically moved the "average" from 5 to 3:


https://golfcoursegurus.com/rankings/doakscale.php


3: About the level of the average golf course in the world. (Since I don't go out of my way to see average courses, my scale is deliberately skewed to split hairs among the good, the better and the best)

Tom then could discuss in greater detail the courses at the higher end. This was in the era of "Championship" 7000 yard Par 72 - 4 par 5, and 4 par 3 golf courses. Tom was a breath of fresh air. It worked for him as an architect and us as consumers, but it's time to bury that era!!


John Daly was a freak in his day with his length. Now he is just another long player with a nice touch. Tiger too. Yes, they were pioneers with their length, but people caught on and there are dozens if not hundreds of long players now.

Now golf needs to accept that the Merion and Nationals of the world can't contain the modern player. I don't personally like it, but that is the reality when you look at the combination of fitness+equipment+agronomy. Maybe The Buck Club will launch The Zac Scale :) 


"You have to make sure Y is greater than X for sustainability.

And the list of great clubs that failed and re-created themselves is a long one. Long before it was a small private club, Fishers Island Club was a resort with a huge hotel. "Mysteriously" the clubhouse burned down in the middle of the winter when there was no electricity running to the club. :)  Shinnecock, Winged Foot, Newport, and Eastward Ho! are all on that same list.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 06:35:07 AM by Mike Sweeney »
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If weíve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. Weíre no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

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