News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Tim Gallant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2017, 02:55:50 AM »
Myopia Hunt - 3rd Hole - a strong par-3 after a relatively relaxed opening couple of holes. I don't remember the specific yardage, but I do remember hitting driver or 3-wood.

Sam Andrews

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2017, 04:11:31 AM »
The Sacred 9's second hole is a slap upside the head at 225 yards with a domed green   :o

Ciao


Sean,


To the question, what do you think is the impact of that hole coming so early in the round to the flow of the course? The first time I played it the breeze and the temperature meant I had to hit driver to get there, which was challenging for a second smack of the day (playing foursomes). I can see it as a real card wrecker if you put one onto the road to the right.


Clearly there is room for a more forward tee to make a shorter par 3 as hole No. 2 and then a longer one as hole No. 10. Is its length perhaps governed by the fact that, if you are playing singles, you have already had a couple of long shots on the preceding par 5 opener, so should be warmed up to attack a really difficult green? Or is it the desire to add length to the card?


Sam
He's the hairy handed gent, who ran amok in Kent.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2017, 04:40:07 AM »
Sam

The opener isn't terribly onerous so a tough par 3 as the second isn't asking too much.  Though I do agree that with the road and the 2nd, a card could be in jeopardy before turning about face.  To me, the 2nd is more about the signal being sent by the designer(s), the Sacred 9 is short, but don't take it lightly.  I know this hole got my full attention and kept me on guard the remaindr of the day.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Eric LeFante

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2017, 08:29:04 AM »
2nd hole at Shinnecock
4th hole at Augusta
4th hole at Riviera
2nd hole at Liberty National (16th hole this week)
4th hole at Mountain Ridge
3rd hole at Hidden Creek
« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 01:56:19 PM by Eric LeFante »

Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2017, 08:35:59 AM »
#2 at St. Louis CC is around 225-230, uphill, and a Biarritz to boot, with the swale part of the green.  At what part of the green do they measure the length of that kind of Biarritz?


I was also thinking about St. Louis CC.  The current yardages for #2 & #3 are listed as 213 & 207.  The other three par-3s on the course are all under 200 yards.


And, speaking of CBM, the 3rd at Chicago GC is ~210-235 yds and a Biarritz.
That's after uphill openers of 450 and 460.

Michael J. Moss

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2017, 09:13:16 AM »
How long will the players be playing the uphill 2nd at Shinnecock Hills?

Eric LeFante

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2017, 10:39:44 AM »
How long will the players be playing the uphill 2nd at Shinnecock Hills?


I believe its 250-260 now

John Cowden

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2017, 11:28:32 AM »
Pasatiempo's uphill third is long and steep; the putting surface can't be seen from the tee.  Ken Venturi, who held the course record for quite a while, is reported to have called it the toughest one shotter in California.

Paul Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2017, 11:42:59 AM »
4th hole at ANGC is the longest of the Par 3.


Paul
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Jonathan Mallard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2017, 12:10:06 PM »
3 at Ballybunion is 224.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2017, 01:11:55 PM »
Surely it's not just the card yardage of a hole but the 'effective yardage' that matters? Prevailing wind, up/down/side hill, bounce-in-ably firm or hit and stick soft etc.
Atb

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2017, 01:53:52 PM »
Beverly's third hole is 245 from the championship tee, straight into the prevailing wind.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Andrew Carr

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2017, 01:56:56 PM »
Since there are so many fine examples on great courses are we nearly in agreement that having the longest par 3 of the set as the first par 3, early in the round, is not only not a problem, but also seems to be something that works quite well?

Bill Shamleffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2017, 05:39:31 PM »
#2 at St. Louis CC is around 225-230, uphill, and a Biarritz to boot, with the swale part of the green.  At what part of the green do they measure the length of that kind of Biarritz?

I was also thinking about St. Louis CC.  The current yardages for #2 & #3 are listed as 213 & 207.  The other three par-3s on the course are all under 200 yards.

Bill, I don't have Google Earth, or I'd see what it says.  213 seems to me on the light side, though that's just my subjective memory from nearly 50 years ago!

I thought I read they pushed the tee on #3 (Eden) back, so that it now stretches to over 200.  #7, the Short, is well under 200.  12 is probably a little less than 200, as is 16, the Reverse Redan. 

I'm guessing you played the old Forest Park 18, before Hale Irwin changed things around.  #2 used to check in around 215 or 220, all flat; while #3 was around 185 with the second half all uphill towards the Art Museum parking lot.  I used to like those holes a lot, and also #4 that wrapped itself along Art Hill, with a Alps-like second shot that made this par 5 way harder than it should have been for a hole so short.


Jim,
I agree, I believe that #2 at StLCC can play at least as long as 225 yds.


You are correct that #2 on the old Forest Park 18-hole course was over 200 yrds.  By the late 1980s until the course was re-designed, it was listed as a par-4.  I will have to see if I can find one of my old scorecards with the yardage when it was listed as a par-4.  With all of the water around that hole, it was smarter to hit a mid-iron to leave a short chip to the green.


The 4th hole across Art Hill was always a fun hole to play; especially the tee shot.  However, it is better to have the full use of that hill available for public use, and without concerns or incidents between non-golfers and golfers.  Since the park was refurbished, that hill gets a LOT of use as a spot to play, picnic, layout, etc.


My favorite stretch was always #5-#15, and those holes are all still there except for the old #9 is now two holes - a par 4 & a par 3; and the old #10 is now a drivable par 4 with the tee backed up to near #11.  There was an old tee back there from many many years prior when at some earlier time it was played as a par-4.


Lat month I played for the first time the re-furbished old Triple A at the other corner of the park.  It is now called The Highlands, and includes a driving range, a short game practice area, and is used for a First-Tee program.  The layout is basically the same with a few minor tweaks to the finishing holes.  It is in good shape, and was a lot of fun to play.  For a city 9-hole muni, the fairways & tees were in good condition, and I thought the greens were in very good condition.  It would be a good course for an afternoon league, and for juniors, seniors and beginners.  But a good player can also have some fun and a little bit of a challenge.


On a side note, my brother & I were recently discussing the hold #9 at Forest Park, and if anyone ever hit that green in two.  Later I was looking through my copy of Golfing Before the Arch (a wonderful book on the history of golf in St. Louis written by Jim Healey), and I came across that Larry Ziegler once hit that green in 2.


Did you ever see him play during your time at StLCC?  I forgot that we was considered a long hitter back in the 1970s when he played on the PGA Tour.
“The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet.”  Damon Runyon

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2017, 06:06:10 PM »
Shennecossett's 4th hole is their longest par three at 208 yds and comes first in the round. Playing to a ridiculously tough "volcano" green this is one hard hole and affectionately known as the "Anthill".

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #40 on: September 26, 2017, 08:44:57 PM »
Barona Creek's 3rd hole tips out at 260......
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Dave Givnish

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2017, 11:18:56 PM »
Whitemarsh Valley #4 is 235

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2017, 11:43:19 PM »

The 4th hole across Art Hill was always a fun hole to play; especially the tee shot.  However, it is better to have the full use of that hill available for public use, and without concerns or incidents between non-golfers and golfers.  Since the park was refurbished, that hill gets a LOT of use as a spot to play, picnic, layout, etc.

My favorite stretch was always #5-#15, and those holes are all still there except for the old #9 is now two holes - a par 4 & a par 3; and the old #10 is now a drivable par 4 with the tee backed up to near #11.  There was an old tee back there from many many years prior when at some earlier time it was played as a par-4.

On a side note, my brother & I were recently discussing the hold #9 at Forest Park, and if anyone ever hit that green in two.  Later I was looking through my copy of Golfing Before the Arch (a wonderful book on the history of golf in St. Louis written by Jim Healey), and I came across that Larry Ziegler once hit that green in 2.

Did you ever see him play during your time at StLCC?  I forgot that we was considered a long hitter back in the 1970s when he played on the PGA Tour.

I saw Larry Ziegler play (and win) a U.S. Open sectional qualifying event at Sunset.  I'm guessing that was 1970.  He was paired with Bob Goalby.  Ziegler totally crushed the ball, hitting the green from the tips at Sunset #15 (the ultra-long par 3) with an iron.  Even so, amazes me that he could reach #9 at Forest Park in two. 

Unless my memory is failing me (entirely possible), #2 at Forest Park was a par 3 the whole time I played there, which was from around 1965 to 1970.  I used to hit 4 wood there.  The six par 3s helped make par of 70 a pretty good score at Forest Park, even though it measured under 6000 yards.     

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2017, 11:52:37 PM »

The 2nd at RDGC at 186 on the card from the backs is the longest though there is barely 20 yards between the longest and shortest so it is a little academic.


Jon

Matthew Essig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2017, 01:39:43 AM »
I know there are only 2 par 3s on the course, but the 3rd on Elie comes to my mind.


One of the longer approaches you will hit all day. Plays even longer with a head breeze. I think it is 215 from the 6250 tees.
"Good GCA should offer an interesting golfing challenge to the golfer not a difficult golfing challenge." Jon Wiggett

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #45 on: September 27, 2017, 05:00:51 AM »
Since there are so many fine examples on great courses are we nearly in agreement that having the longest par 3 of the set as the first par 3, early in the round, is not only not a problem, but also seems to be something that works quite well?
It is financial suicide in a modern commercial design to start with a long short hole. You need to clear play in 8 minutes per group, which is achievable on most holes par 4 or par 5. The first short hole needs to be quick to play not a slow one though this problem is lessened as you get further into the round.


At 8 minute intervals you get 30 players off as 4 balls.
At 10 minute intervals you get 24 players off as 4 balls
At 12 minute intervals you get 20 players off as 4 balls.


A 240 yard short hole might even average 13 minutes to play.


In a modern project with 8min intervals you can have 132 players on the course at one time. The maths are the same as above.


If £$£ is not an issue it can be a good thing as it regulates play and for the lesser amount now playing the golf experience is enhanced as the course is less crowded.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 05:16:37 AM by Adrian_Stiff »
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

David McIntosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #46 on: September 27, 2017, 08:57:52 AM »
Nevermind early in the round, Bridge of Allan, an Old Tom Morris designed 9-holer near Stirling, has its longest par 3 as the opening hole. It plays much longer than the 223 yards on the card due to being straight uphill and there being a stone wall guarding the raised green - a daunting prospect for the first swing of the day!

It's testing but certainly not a problem to have this early hole as the longest of the three par 3s at BofA and is actually key to the routing as it gets players up to the top of the hill from where the majority of the rest of the round is played.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 09:05:22 AM by David McIntosh »

Mark Jackson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #47 on: September 27, 2017, 10:10:28 AM »
The second hole at Stanley Thompson designed Sleepy Hollow (near Cleveland, OH) is a 235 yard par 3 with a very narrow green. It plays 220 from the regular tees. The front portion of the green has some pretty significant slope to add to the challenge.


The long par 3 seems to work so early in the round because it is preceded by a shortish par 5 (535 from the tips, 478 from the regular tees) that plays downhill. Thompson eases the player into the round with a birdie/eagle chance at the 1st, but then cranks up the difficulty with the long/difficult par 3 second hole, which is subsequently followed by a 481 yard par 4 and a 586 yard par 5. That three-hole stretch after the accessible starting hole is very testing. I feel like I have gotten off to a good start if I can make it through the first two holes at even par.

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #48 on: September 27, 2017, 10:45:52 AM »

4th hole at Giant's Ridge Quarry is 261 yards from the tips.
3rd at Fortune Bay is 220 yards from tips.
Guess I like to put long par 3 holes early, too, at least some times.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Peter Pallotta

Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #49 on: September 27, 2017, 02:08:35 PM »
Westview is a little known but I think terrific 'home-made' course northeast of Toronto. All 27 holes were laid out by the land's owner, Pops Nesbitt. The 2nd hole (I've forgotten on which of the 9s) is a 225 yard slightly uphill slightly reverse redanish Par 3.
It certainly gets your attention, early in the round, which is undoubtedly a very good thing.

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back