News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Andrew Carr

  • Karma: +0/-0
Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« on: September 25, 2017, 01:22:47 PM »
Some of the most famous long par 3s come either middle of the round, like the 9th at Yale or towards the end of the round, like the 16th at Cypress.  There are also notable examples of the longest par 3 of the set coming early, like Friar's Head's 4th and Pine Valley's 5th.  I understand land should help direct what type of hole goes where in a round, but is there a benefit or a detriment to having the longest par 3 in the first few holes?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 01:28:14 PM by Andrew Carr »

BCowan

Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2017, 01:27:29 PM »
Prior to UofM switching nines around, the 12th hole which was the 3rd hole is 246 from the tips.  Will have to see if it was original length.  This is such a great hole with a great green for a long Par 3


Belvedere 4th hole is 235-240 yards and I believe is original yardage. 
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 01:30:05 PM by Ben Cowan (Michigan) »

Andrew Carr

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2017, 01:33:34 PM »
Haven't seen those yet.  Pasatiempo's 3rd is the longest of the set as well.  I'm sure there are many more fine examples of the longest par 3 early in the round, but are there inherent problems with that being the case?


I personally don't see any issue with it, but I've spoken with some that feel it should never be that early in a round.  Unfortunately, for the people who were trying to make the case against the longest being early in the round, I was never able to follow their reasoning.  That isn't to say their reasoning isn't valid or well informed, but I never understood their point.  For those that believe the longest par 3 in the round shouldn't be early, why do you feel that way?

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2017, 01:37:32 PM »
The long 3rd at Olympic always seemed to slow down play a bit...there are a few spots on the hole where the second shot can take some time.  Orinda's 3rd is 250+ from the back tee, but the wide-open setting for the hole allows for recovery shots to be played without much delay. 
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2017, 01:41:10 PM »
1st at Church Stretton.

The card may say 'only' 181 yds but in reality it's considerably more as the green sits atop a very steep high bank - https://www.churchstrettongolfclub.co.uk/course/hole01.php - driver for most and probably a bogey+ written on the card as well! :) 


Have a look at all the other holes as well. The first three are all par-3's and then you get up onto the plateau where the terrain is generally like this -





atb
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 01:49:35 PM by Thomas Dai »

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2017, 01:55:20 PM »
Shadow Ridge (Former Ionia CC, Donald Ross) is a 9 holer in Ionia, MI. The second hole is 230-ish, uphill to a punchbowl-type green, if memory serves me correctly.


Edit: Just checked the scorecard, the hole is 245.....
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 01:58:54 PM by Joe Hancock »
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2017, 02:29:06 PM »
#3 at Salish Cliffs in Washington is a lusty 291 yards from the tips.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2017, 02:46:49 PM »
A pair of 4th holes in Scotland…

At Cruden Bay, the 4th is 196 from the blue and white tees, but can play upwards of 240 into the wind.

At Muirfield, the 4th is 229 from the white tees.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 05:23:00 PM by Howard Riefs »
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Tyler Kearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2017, 02:46:58 PM »
1st hole at Yarra Yarra is 220 yards.


Tyler

Alex Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2017, 02:49:01 PM »
The 2nd hole at Palos Verdes Country Club tips out at 210 yards and plays into the prevailing breeze at sea level, so often 220+.


Given the first hole is a short par 4 that rarely requires more than 8 iron for the approach, the 2nd presents a very stiff challenge that early in the round.

Dave August

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2017, 02:54:39 PM »
Papago GC in Phoenix -

Par 3 4th is 233 yds from the tips, slightly uphill.  The Par 3 17th is 243 yds, the men's tees play 235.


So both early and late, at that course.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 05:46:47 PM by Dave August »

Tom Bagley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2017, 03:16:36 PM »
The 4th at Worcester MA is 235 and the 4th at Essex County is 233 - both by Ross, although it should be noted that the 4th at Essex County was the 13th hole in the original routing.

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2017, 03:21:34 PM »
#2 at St. Louis CC is around 225-230, uphill, and a Biarritz to boot, with the swale part of the green.  At what part of the green do they measure the length of that kind of Biarritz? 

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2017, 03:36:35 PM »

I never heard the reasoning, but RB Harris, and a few of his disciples, like Larry Packard and Jim Spear all seemed to prefer the longer par 3 of the nine as the earlier one, with the shorter one coming later in the nine.


I think it had something to do with their strict adherence to perfect par rotation of 4-5-4-3-4-5-4-3-4.  Usually their last par 4 featured a long approach shot, and they wanted a short to medium one on the hole before.  And, the first two par 4 holes were usually moderate length, and the second had a short approach, so the fourth could have a long approach.


However, any way they looked at it, somewhere in there, you ended up with short 4, par 5, short par 3, all in a row.  Looked like variety on the card, but you ended up with three short approaches, despite variations in par and distance, so I considered the theory to be somewhat flawed.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Bill Shamleffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2017, 03:56:09 PM »
#2 at St. Louis CC is around 225-230, uphill, and a Biarritz to boot, with the swale part of the green.  At what part of the green do they measure the length of that kind of Biarritz?


I was also thinking about St. Louis CC.  The current yardages for #2 & #3 are listed as 213 & 207.  The other three par-3s on the course are all under 200 yards.
“The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet.”  Damon Runyon

Clyde Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2017, 04:27:21 PM »
The 235 yard first at Dalmunzie Castle - with river flanking tight right, and tee lumpier than a playboy model - makes for a daunting start. At least you get a second crack at it!


The 205 yard opener at Southport and Ainsdale, mostly all through the air, must be one of the toughest starts in links golf.

Not sure if it is a benefit or a detriment, but if you are a slow starter and likely to bogey a tough par-3 anyway, you might as well kill the two birds with one bad shot!!!   

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2017, 05:00:35 PM »
#2 at St. Louis CC is around 225-230, uphill, and a Biarritz to boot, with the swale part of the green.  At what part of the green do they measure the length of that kind of Biarritz?

I was also thinking about St. Louis CC.  The current yardages for #2 & #3 are listed as 213 & 207.  The other three par-3s on the course are all under 200 yards.

Bill, I don't have Google Earth, or I'd see what it says.  213 seems to me on the light side, though that's just my subjective memory from nearly 50 years ago!

I thought I read they pushed the tee on #3 (Eden) back, so that it now stretches to over 200.  #7, the Short, is well under 200.  12 is probably a little less than 200, as is 16, the Reverse Redan. 

I'm guessing you played the old Forest Park 18, before Hale Irwin changed things around.  #2 used to check in around 215 or 220, all flat; while #3 was around 185 with the second half all uphill towards the Art Museum parking lot.  I used to like those holes a lot, and also #4 that wrapped itself along Art Hill, with a Alps-like second shot that made this par 5 way harder than it should have been for a hole so short. 

David Whitmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2017, 06:00:41 PM »
I think the 2nd hole at Congressional is around 235 yards or so.

Andrew Simpson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2017, 06:16:29 PM »
Reay GC in Caithness Scotland, 1st hole 235Y in to the prevailing wind with a slightly raised 2 tiered green.
It is quickly backed up by probably the second toughest hole, where a bogey, bogey start is perfectly acceptable and off the top of my memory the course record is -5 with that start.

Tim Fitz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2017, 06:44:41 PM »
Beverly #3 is a stout 245 from the tips.

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2017, 07:04:05 PM »
Well, there's the 3rd at Merion during the US Open, however long that was.

Kyle Harris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2017, 08:26:15 PM »
Huntingdon Valley's 3rd tips out at 230 or so. Tough shot into a Redan-interpreted green site.
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

Thank you for changing the font of your posts. It makes them easier to scroll past.

Tom Bacsanyi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2017, 08:47:00 PM »
Never played it but I would prefer to take my double or triple on the 5th at Pine Valley early in the round and be done with it.


(Based on photos)
Don't play too much golf. Two rounds a day are plenty.

--Harry Vardon

ward peyronnin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2017, 08:49:42 PM »
Clyde great notation; S&A is a passed over gem of a track.

Rich Goodale's home course of Aberdour starts with a Pebble Beach No 7 downhill 170 yds two shotter to a green perched on a dome of rock with approaches at least 10' below and teeing off from a diminutive platform across from the catering room and about 400 feet above the firth; wind is a slight factor.

Then one tackles the one shot second bobbing on its west side all along the firth. Declenching commences thereafter
"Golf is happiness. It's intoxication w/o the hangover; stimulation w/o the pills. It's price is high yet its rewards are richer. Some say its a boys pastime but it builds men. It cleanses the mind/rejuvenates the body. It is these things and many more for those of us who truly love it." M.Norman

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Longest Par 3 Early in the Round
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2017, 08:59:03 PM »
The Sacred 9's second hole is a slap upside the head at 225 yards with a domed green   :o

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Ashridge, Kennemer, de Pan, Eindhoven, Hilversumche, Royal Ostend, Alnmouth & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back