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AStaples

  • Karma: +0/-0
Indianwood Old and bluegrass fairways
« on: September 20, 2017, 02:38:28 PM »
I recently played Indianwood Old, and really, really liked it.  The place played great.  It reminded me a lot of the Kings Course at Gleneagles only faster and less gorse. 
[/size]I know some think the greens may be too similar/punchbowl/boring, but I felt they were a nice balance to how tight the place is now playing since many of the fairways have been reduced, and native grasses pinched along the edges. I really liked front side, holes 2, 4, 5, 6 green and 9.  The back was routed over really cool land.  I think Indianwood Old is very under rated in an area of top quality golf.



So, my topic is based on our obsession with bentgrass fairways.  It was obvious the course has reduced the amount of fairways, most likely over time, and most likely to reduce costs.  The course seemed prime for a turf conversion to the new low mow bluegrasses, cut at a half inch or slightly less, and allow the width to be restored.  And, if costs could be reduced in managing bentgrass fairways (assuming they are on a modest to high chemical budget and don't pay exorbitant rates for water), then they could even look to restore many of the greens that have also shrunk.  I would contend that expanding the envelope, plus restoring the greens back to their original size, with some additional chipping swales and short grass around the complexes, would not only make the place play even better, but also give it a new sense of what it may have been years ago when it was more highly regarded. 


Hopefully more courses will follow the lead of Stoatin Brae, and go wall to wall bluegrass (other than greens).

BCowan

Re: Indianwood Old and bluegrass fairways
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2017, 03:21:48 PM »

Indianwood is one heck of a piece of land and routing.  Has a few similar holes and bunker locations could be greatly improved.

I'll take flagstick bent mixed with a little fescue. The new bents dont require as much as the old ones.  The key is for Indianwood to not host tourneys.  Would love to see C&C reno at thee Wood.  I hear Stoatin fairways are in rough shape and low mow blue takes forever to grow in lower Michigan in the spring.

AStaples

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Indianwood Old and bluegrass fairways
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2017, 03:38:29 PM »
Flagstick is something to keep an eye on... tried to use it at MCC but didn't have enough stock that year.  I also like the fescue mix.  Could put fescue in the blue as well.  I'll be interested in seeing how the blue works out at Stoatin Brae.  I figured their issues were related to getting a good establishment, which is always the case with blue. 

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Indianwood Old and bluegrass fairways
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2017, 03:43:09 PM »
No Pure D?

BCowan

Re: Indianwood Old and bluegrass fairways
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2017, 03:54:53 PM »
I think a buddy up at indianwood should take place next year followed by a turf Q&A after over beers......

Tom Bacsanyi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Indianwood Old and bluegrass fairways
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2017, 06:47:40 PM »
No Pure D?


Pure Distinction is for greens. 


I would advocate a blue/rye mix.  Rye quicker to establish, blue more hardy once established.  I think you could throw fescue in the mix as well, but it would eventually get outcompeted by the other species except for the shade perhaps.
Don't play too much golf. Two rounds a day are plenty.

--Harry Vardon

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Indianwood Old and bluegrass fairways
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2017, 07:45:05 PM »

BCowan

Re: Indianwood Old and bluegrass fairways
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2017, 09:27:06 PM »
they could even look to restore many of the greens that have also shrunk.  I would contend that expanding the envelope, plus restoring the greens back to their original size, with some additional chipping swales and short grass around the complexes, would not only make the place play even better, but also give it a new sense of what it may have been years ago when it was more highly regarded. 
This is the best part of your post and something I've never realized.

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Indianwood Old and bluegrass fairways
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2017, 05:56:29 AM »


Indianwood is one heck of a piece of land and routing.  Has a few similar holes and bunker locations could be greatly improved.

I'll take flagstick bent mixed with a little fescue. The new bents dont require as much as the old ones.  The key is for Indianwood to not host tourneys.  Would love to see C&C reno at thee Wood.  I hear Stoatin fairways are in rough shape and low mow blue takes forever to grow in lower Michigan in the spring.


Dad built a course 15 years ago using low mow blue. No issues with growth in the spring and this was outside of Holland. SB may have just opened a little early and without wall to wall cart paths, its hard for that turf to fill in when the ponies are let out.
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Course & Grounds
Mountain Lake
Lake Wales, FL

BCowan

Re: Indianwood Old and bluegrass fairways
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2017, 06:49:02 AM »
DS is a horrible example, course is a soup salad.   Flier lies in the fairway too. 
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 06:51:52 AM by Ben Cowan (Michigan) »

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Indianwood Old and bluegrass fairways
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2017, 01:57:42 PM »

DS is a horrible example, course is a soup salad.   Flier lies in the fairway too.


Not talking about DS.
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Course & Grounds
Mountain Lake
Lake Wales, FL

BCowan

Re: Indianwood Old and bluegrass fairways
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2017, 03:26:42 PM »

DS is a horrible example, course is a soup salad.   Flier lies in the fairway too.


Not talking about DS.

Tony,
 
    Indianwood is a top tier Detroit club, 5th best IMO.  They aren't going to put bluegrass in their fairways nor would expanding them to their original widths with bent add to much to their annual maint bill which is very very low compared to its tier competition. 

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Indianwood Old and bluegrass fairways
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2017, 03:43:02 PM »


DS is a horrible example, course is a soup salad.   Flier lies in the fairway too.


Not talking about DS.

Tony,
 
    Indianwood is a top tier Detroit club, 5th best IMO.  They aren't going to put bluegrass in their fairways nor would expanding them to their original widths with bent add to much to their annual maint bill which is very very low compared to its tier competition.


Ok, great. I have no interest in what Indianwood has, or should have. I'm just referring to your claim that low mow bluegrass is very slow to grow in the spring in MI. It's a false statement. Now, there are different types of low mow bluegrass (dwarf bluegrass) and certainly any type of fescue is very slow to wake up from the winter months.
  Because of the age of Indianwood, they probably already have a lot of bluegrass/poa in their fairways, already. (unless they have been regrassed in the last 25 years. Quite possible.)
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 03:45:39 PM by Anthony_Nysse »
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Course & Grounds
Mountain Lake
Lake Wales, FL

BCowan

Re: Indianwood Old and bluegrass fairways
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2017, 05:57:32 PM »


DS is a horrible example, course is a soup salad.   Flier lies in the fairway too.


Not talking about DS.

Tony,
 
    Indianwood is a top tier Detroit club, 5th best IMO.  They aren't going to put bluegrass in their fairways nor would expanding them to their original widths with bent add to much to their annual maint bill which is very very low compared to its tier competition.


Ok, great. I have no interest in what Indianwood has, or should have. I'm just referring to your claim that low mow bluegrass is very slow to grow in the spring in MI. It's a false statement. Now, there are different types of low mow bluegrass (dwarf bluegrass) and certainly any type of fescue is very slow to wake up from the winter months.
  Because of the age of Indianwood, they probably already have a lot of bluegrass/poa in their fairways, already. (unless they have been regrassed in the last 25 years. Quite possible.)

Tony,

   I just got off the phone with 3 top tier Detroit keeper buds of mine.  We would like to know what variety of Bluegrass was used at this course.  Many of them have low mow blue that isn't all dwarf (mix) in their rough and it is very slow to grow.  They would be happy to show you.....  To call my statement a fall statement is pretty brazen on your part.....    Maybe stick to warm season grasses mate.... 
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 06:10:05 PM by Ben Cowan (Michigan) »

Gary_Nelson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Indianwood Old and bluegrass fairways
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2017, 10:11:41 PM »
Andy,
Indianwood Old is a favorite of mine.   I think their fescue rough areas are excellent.  Thin and wispy.  Some good lies, and some bad ones.  But always easy to find your ball.


Were the fescue rough areas in good shape?  Or were you in the fairway all day long?

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