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Matthew Prince

  • Karma: +0/-0
Cabot Cliffs condition
« on: December 14, 2016, 08:00:47 AM »
Just an FYI for anyone planning a Cabot trip next year -  I have had a trip planned for Cabot for May 2017.  I was just informed by the golf director that they expect to have a "substantial" number (probably more than half) of the holes at Cliffs to play to temporary greens at that point. They are confident they will have all the greens open by July.


Apparently the course went to bed in pretty bad shape at the end of this season ... reading some reviews of people who played in Sept/Oct seem to confirm (I saw a bunch of people saying things like they can't believe they were allowed to play on the greens, tufts of grass coming up with every step, greens seeming completely dead, etc).


Cabot Links is totally fine apparently. 

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot Cliffs condition
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2016, 08:29:06 AM »
Has the strength of the dollar made traveling to Canada as inexpensive as it appears in theory? Got to give the resort an A+ for honesty.

Mark Fedeli

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot Cliffs condition
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2016, 10:09:49 AM »
I was there with a large group (of Canadians) in early September and they were all very, very disappointed with the conditions of the greens, especially considering the cost (did I mention they were Canadian?). Granted, these are guys who are used to fairly pristine country club conditions, but they weren't wrong. Personally, it was the best I've ever putted so, grain of salt and all that.
South Jersey to Brooklyn. @marrrkfedeli

Frank M

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot Cliffs condition
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2016, 12:01:53 PM »
I was out that way and happened to run into some people I know who were the "upper corporate" golf type. They were on a tour of the island that included Cabot, Highlands and Bell Bay. When I ran into them they were on their last day of the trip at Cabot and they were not happy with the trip at all. Said they wouldn't return because as a whole the island courses were in bad condition and that Bell Bay was the only one they thought was good (again condition wise).

This was in September 2014 when, as I understand it, Cabot Cliffs  ::) Don't shoot the messenger.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +0/-1
Re: Cabot Cliffs condition
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2016, 05:40:00 AM »
Based on the posts above, I wonder how much of this is northeastern golfers not "getting" fescue.


Then again, the course opened much earlier than it should have and that usually leads to some trouble in year two.

Randy Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot Cliffs condition
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2016, 09:48:51 AM »
When I read this I thought how strange and the only conclusión I came to was, they must have planted fescue. Is cabot links fescue? If there in good condition, then I agree with Tom, they might have opened a little to soon. I get fescue but I also understand a golf experience is ruined if I am asked to putt on part dirt and part grass. Most of us can live with Brown or any color of grass but if your targeted market is 100+ dollars greens fee`s plus lodging expense your going to need to provide an aceptable playable putting surface. It will be interesting to follow if they change to bent or they are just living and learning and will make some adjustments and eventually the fescue will provide the customer satisfaction they seek!

Josh Tarble

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot Cliffs condition
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2016, 09:56:54 AM »
Based on the posts above, I wonder how much of this is northeastern golfers not "getting" fescue.


Then again, the course opened much earlier than it should have and that usually leads to some trouble in year two.

Is Cabot Links a different grass than Cliffs?

We had a group from our club go up in September...heard the exact same thing.  Conditioning wasn't close to the same as Links, that was their only disappointment.

Tim Passalacqua

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot Cliffs condition
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2016, 10:05:46 AM »
I was there in August and thought it was in great shape.  I do think it's the difference of playing on fescue.  If you haven't played on fescue and don't know what to expect, I could see people not liking it.  I don't think you will appreciate all the fun options fescue gives you.  I love it.  It definitely makes you a little more nervous on 5 footers than bent grass, but its all part of the fun.

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot Cliffs condition
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2016, 11:55:07 AM »
I completely enjoyed my visit to Nova Scotia last June.  Even the 20h drive from Philadelphia!

Photo albums:

Sunnier day:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/CabotCliffs/

Overcast day (I prefer this album):

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/CabotCliffs2/

A cool rainbow to begin the round at Cabot Links:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/CabotLinks/

And Stanley Thompson's course:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/HighlandLinks/
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:
https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Anton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot Cliffs condition
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2016, 11:59:00 AM »


I haven't made the trip to Cabot yet and it was for this very reason...... I followed the construction news of Cabot Cliffs and judging by pics, timeline, etc. it seemed like they were offering 'preview' rounds very early.  Also, that region had a harsh winter so the roots are still probably not that strong.  A Canadian customer of mine informed me that the course will need time to heal and that it may be wise to wait 2 seasons before I make the trip.   


I have the same concern about going up to Forest Dunes and playing the Loop.  Seems the ownership pushed the course out into play very quickly.  Conversely,  Streamsong resort seems to be taking a more conservative approach as their Black course opening is pushed back much farther.  It will have a full year of grow in before the preview rounds begin late fall 2017. 

As a businessman/business owner, I understand the need to push the opening of a course up to keep the 'buzz' going, but for long-term benefits,  allowing the course roots to take hold for an extra season is a proven better decision (especially in harsher climates).  Unfortunately, all business areas have moved to the "rush to make money immediately" as opposed to the smarter long term business model which is "steady organic growth".  Time is money but taking your time yields a better product.   :)
“I've spent most of my life golfing - the rest I've just wasted”

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +0/-1
Re: Cabot Cliffs condition
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2016, 01:27:36 PM »

I have the same concern about going up to Forest Dunes and playing the Loop.  Seems the ownership pushed the course out into play very quickly.  Conversely,  Streamsong resort seems to be taking a more conservative approach as their Black course opening is pushed back much farther.  It will have a full year of grow in before the preview rounds begin late fall 2017. 



The fairways at The Loop may still be a bit thin next year, but not the greens, which were in great shape on opening day.  The greens aren't fescue, and bentgrass matures quite quickly, though the greens are firmer in the first year or two until a bit of thatch develops as a cushion underneath.

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot Cliffs condition
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2016, 10:13:09 PM »

nevermind ...
We're starting to behave as if we've reached the end of human knowledge. And while that notion is undoubtedly false, the certitude it generates is paralyzing.” — Chuck Klosterman, But What If We're Wrong

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot Cliffs condition
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2016, 05:16:34 AM »
So are folks really saying that golfers thought fescue in good nick was actually terrible nick?  I can't for the life of me get my head around this suggestion.  Surely the course must have been in sub-par nick regardless of fescue.  The alternative answer of golfers interpreting good fescue conditions as awful is too painful. 


Ciao
New plays planned for 2023: Cardigan, St David's City, Panmure, Kinghorn, Harrogate, Hinckley, Robin Hood, Sandiway & Ladybank

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +0/-1
Re: Cabot Cliffs condition
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2016, 08:00:45 AM »
So are folks really saying that golfers thought fescue in good nick was actually terrible nick?  I can't for the life of me get my head around this suggestion.  Surely the course must have been in sub-par nick regardless of fescue.  The alternative answer of golfers interpreting good fescue conditions as awful is too painful. 



Sean:


I didn't see Cabot this fall so I can't answer for it, specifically.  But I remember when High Pointe was new, a friend from Chicago who was a life member of Ballybunion came up to play it.  He said they really needed to get it in better shape for it to be well received, and I agreed -- but then I asked him how it compared to the last time he'd been at Ballybunion, and he said it was just as good as that.  Of course, that was back in the 80's, before Ballyb started raking in the visitor fees.

Frank M

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot Cliffs condition
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2016, 01:29:36 PM »
So are folks really saying that golfers thought fescue in good nick was actually terrible nick?  I can't for the life of me get my head around this suggestion.  Surely the course must have been in sub-par nick regardless of fescue.  The alternative answer of golfers interpreting good fescue conditions as awful is too painful. 


Ciao

I'm certainly not attributing the poor conditions to fescue and it doesn't seem anyone else is either. The course, specifically the greens, were simply in bad nick/form.

SL_Solow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot Cliffs condition
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2016, 02:04:45 PM »
We were there in early July.  Courses were in wonderful shape.  Greens were a tad slow, even for fescue, but I attributed that to relative newness.  Difficult to get there but well worth the effort.  Clearly cannot speak to conditions in the fall

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabot Cliffs condition
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2017, 03:15:57 PM »
I am at Cabot now and the greens at Cliffs are in pretty good shape. I hear that they were very slow until early July but the speed isn't too bad now. They continue to be slower than Links but that isn't surprising given that they are still very young. The lower level on 17 does have some poa growing in right now. Some of the greens had some expansion last year and that should help to reduce the wear.


Both courses are playing firm and fast right now as there has been very little rain in CB over the last few weeks - this has made for very fun golf.

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