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Peter Pallotta

a. You know what you like, and what you like is all that really matters?
b. You've played many excellent courses, and now feel you well understand what makes for good gca?
c. You've spent years reading the work of acknowledged experts, and so have a very reliable standard by which to judge?
d. Because you think that, in this life, there's no reason to ever *not be* self assured?
e. The consensus opinion/ranking lists generally align well with your own views/experience, and that has given you confidence?
f. In other areas of life you're smart and insightful, and so you don't doubt that you're smart and insightful here too?
g. You believe there are fundamental *principles* involved in the art-craft of gca, and that if you understand those principles you can recognize great gca when you see it?
h. You're convinced that all our discussions here are at best *merely* opinion, such that there's no need to speak tentatively or say IMHO over and over again?
i. You make your living in the industry, and feel that if you don't know -- and don't *appear* to know - then who else does?
j. You've concluded that none of these discussions actually matters in the least, one way or another, either to you or to anyone else, so you feel free to say whatever you feel like at any given moment?
k. Several of the above
l. None of the above



Paul Carey

  • Karma: +0/-0

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0

....you know full well all the great architects throughout time changed key design paradigms over time, without admitting they were ever wrong.


It is possible, in their minds, to be "right then, and right now".
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
It's a curse to know so much. Thank God that with knowledge comes a sagging ass.

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
B c g


I try to be confident in opinion by learning the principles and finding the best examples.
AKA Mayday

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
m.


Like many things, I find the more I research and sample, the more I realize there is to learn and discover-thus making me realize I don't know $hi&%
Therefore I am not self assured at all about my opinions, though I'm pretty sure I know what I don't like
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
j a k a b
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mark Pavy

  • Karma: +0/-0

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 04:42:20 PM by Ian Andrew »
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BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 10:54:11 AM by Brian Hoover »

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
a. You know what you like, and what you like is all that really matters?
b. You've played many excellent courses, and now feel you well understand what makes for good gca?
c. You've spent years reading the work of acknowledged experts, and so have a very reliable standard by which to judge?
d. Because you think that, in this life, there's no reason to ever *not be* self assured?
e. The consensus opinion/ranking lists generally align well with your own views/experience, and that has given you confidence?
f. In other areas of life you're smart and insightful, and so you don't doubt that you're smart and insightful here too?
g. You believe there are fundamental *principles* involved in the art-craft of gca, and that if you understand those principles you can recognize great gca when you see it?
h. You're convinced that all our discussions here are at best *merely* opinion, such that there's no need to speak tentatively or say IMHO over and over again?
i. You make your living in the industry, and feel that if you don't know -- and don't *appear* to know - then who else does?
j. You've concluded that none of these discussions actually matters in the least, one way or another, either to you or to anyone else, so you feel free to say whatever you feel like at any given moment?
k. Several of the above
l. None of the above

a. You know what you like, and you listen to what others say they like.

b. You've played many excellent courses, and now feel you well understand what makes for good gca?

c. You've spent years reading the work of acknowledged experts, and have carefully considered the opinions of others.

d. Because you think that, when evaluating artistic merit, there's no reason to ever *be* self assured.  In general, I am intensely curious, and not a particularly confident or self-assured personBecause I am confident this is the correct approach, I am both confident and self-assured in my opinions.

e. The consensus opinion/ranking lists generally align well with your own views/experience, and that has given you confidence?

f. In other areas of life you're smart and insightful, and so you don't doubt that you're smart and insightful here too?  Eh, you've got to know your limitations.  See d.

g. You believe there are fundamental *principles* involved in the art-craft of gca, and that if you understand those principles you can recognize great gca when you see it?  Shades of gray here; sure there are principles, but no hard and fast rules.  In general, I think "great GCA" can only be recognized by playing it and walking it.

h. You're convinced that all our discussions here are informed opinions.  However, there's no need to speak tentatively or say IMHO over and over again.

i. You make your living in the industry, and feel that if you don't know -- and don't *appear* to know - then who else does? (N/A)

j. You've concluded that none of these discussions actually matters in the least, one way or another, either to you or to anyone else, so you feel free to say whatever you feel like at any given moment?  GolfClubAtlas happened at a rather disruptive time in golf architecture history.  Whether or not GCA has made an impact on the direction of architecture and the tastes of discriminating golfers is debatable.  I say it has.  I dislike it when people act like none of these discussions "actually matter".

k. Several of the above
l. None of the above

Nice topic.  Thanks.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 09:32:02 AM by John Kirk »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Advice for those who answered "J" - quit the DG and give up your spot to someone who actually cares.  :)


One of the reasons I spend time here is to see if anyone offers a useful thought, or a topic that makes me reconsider what I've been up to.  Actionable intelligence has come from the unlikeliest of posters ... even Matt Ward!  But there are certainly golf holes on my courses that are different as a result of discussions here, so, it CAN have an impact, if you are a thoughtful person and not just someone who likes to hear themselves talk.

BCowan

You are welcome Tom. 

Peter Pallotta

I was exchanging thoughts with someone in the industry; he was sharing his views about some highly regarded courses and providing measured (and to me very insightful and reasonable) critiques. His views were based on & bolstered by a variety of on the ground study and experience -- and some of those views I've never read/heard anywhere else. Later I thought to myself: "and your views, Peter, are based on *what*, exactly?".

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Pietro


I think A and H apply for me, but I am not terribly self assured. I would add another choice in that for nearly all the conversations it should be automatically assumed that the courses are good to great. So much of the time we are splitting hairs.

Ciao
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 05:12:41 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Lloyd_Cole

  • Karma: +0/-0
L.
I spent maybe an hour a night here at GCA for 3 or 4 years. I read pretty much everything, and I was lucky enough to play so many great courses. I continue to be lucky although I no longer have a 'bucket list'.
My conclusion -  prefer to play with my son and my friends. I prefer to compete.
Having an understanding of GCA can absolutely help when trying to win. But sometimes ignorance offers an equal or greater advantage.
I have no absolute allegiance to any school of design. I enjoy and Raynor and I enjoy Flynn. I shouldn't, according to my supposed aesthetic, enjoy RTJ courses, but I have done so, more than once.
What I do like to be able to say with confidence, and I can be heard uttering this, at least once every few weeks, is "that bloody tree should not be there".
« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 12:20:13 AM by Lloyd_Cole »

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
LIKE button for Lloyd Cole. Play on, strummer.
Coming in August 2023
~Manakiki
~OSU Scarlet
~OSU Grey
~NCR South
~Springfield
~Columbus
~Lake Forest (OH)
~Sleepy Hollow (OH)

Martin Lehmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
m. You know that golf is a ball game. You understand what is needed to play the game in the best possible way (and what is not). You don't let fashionable life style nonsense and other mumbo jumbo distract you from what the essence of a golf course is and should be.




Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
 8)  Peter,


I simply put things on a basic "colored belt" basis, just trying to head towards black...  and then there's all the kung fu stuff little grasshopper, ... all the way thru, discipline:  https://youtu.be/W2yIkDVs0cA
 


Meaning of the ColorsOriginally, the white belt was simply dyed to a new color. This repeated dying process dictated the type of belt color and the order of the colors. The standard belt color system is white, yellow, gold, orange, green, blue, purple, brown, red and black. Due to the dying process, it was only practical to increasingly use darker colors. All of this came about shortly after the Second World War, when Korea and Japan were very poor countries. Dying the belts to a new color was a cheap way to have a visible, simple and effective ranking system.  White Belt: White signifies a birth, or beginning, of a seed. A white belt student is a beginner searching for knowledge of the Art. The white belt is the beginning of life's cycle, and represents the seed as it lies beneath the snow in the winter.  Yellow Belt or Sash: Yellow signifies the first beams of sunlight which shines upon the seed giving it new strength with the beginning of new life. A yellow belt student is given his first ray of knowledge, opening his mind, from his instructors.  Orange Belt or Sash: Orange represents the growing power of the sun as it warms the earth to prepare for new growth in the spring. The orange belt is starting to feel his body and mind open and develop.  Green Belt or Sash: Green signifies the growth of the seed as it sprouts from the earth reaching toward the sun and begins to grow into a plant. A green belt student learns to strengthen and refine his techniques.  Blue Belt or Sash: Blue signifies the blue sky as the plant continues to grow toward it. A blue belt student moves up higher in rank just as the plant grows taller. The light feeds the plant so it can continue to grow. The student is fed additional knowledge of the Art in order for his body and mind continue to grow and develop.  Purple Belt or Sash: Purple represents the changing sky of dawn, as once again the student undergoes a new change and prepares for the transition to advanced student. A purple belt begins to understand the meaning of the black belt.  Brown Belt or Sash: Brown represents the ripening of the seed, a maturing and harvesting process. A brown belt is an advanced student whose techniques are beginning to mature, and he is beginning to understand the fruits of his hard work as a beginner.  Red Belt or Sash: Red signifies the red-hot heat of the Sun as the plant continues growing toward it. As a red belt student acquires more detailed knowledge, just as the plant grows slowly toward the Sun, so the red belt student learns to be more cautious with his knowledge and physical abilities. Red is a sign of danger, and the red belt is beginning to become dangerous with their knowledge and abilities.  Black Belt or Sash: Black signifies the darkness beyond the Sun. A black belt seeks new, more profound knowledge of the Art. As he begins to teach others, he plants new seeds and helps them grow and mature. His students, many whom will form roots deep into the Art, blossom and grow through the ranks in a never-ending process of self-growth, knowledge, and enlightenment.


oh, and I never saw a sucker pin I didn't like
« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 09:24:38 AM by Steve Lang »
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
M. Because somewhere along the line I graduated from a typical low handicap who felt hard was good.I   started asking myself if the holes were fun to play.


N. I stopped looking at scorecard yardage and realized that 7000 yards has no special meaning.


O. I played Royal Melbourne and finally grasped the importance of width and preferred angles of approach.

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
All of the above.
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
I am not self assured about anything.  My statements are working theories and I find it interesting to see whether they hold up to scrutiny.

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
My wife's favorite line that I use about myself: "Often wrong, but never in doubt."

Kirk Gill

  • Karma: +0/-0
I'm NOT really self-assured, but it seems like participating in the group is more enjoyable than spectating. I figure that posts can be easily ignored or shot down, if the writer is totally off base.
"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini

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