News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Morgan Clawson

  • Karma: +0/-0

Photo from Andy Johnson of The Fried Egg

**Updated October 16, 2017**
David McLay Kidd is currently building Mammoth Dunes, the second course at Sand Valley.  Construction started in 2016. Six holes were available for preview play in June, 2017.  9 holes were available on August 1, 2017.  The official grand opening is planned for 2018.

I visited Sand Valley in late October 2016, August 2017, and October 2017 and have walked the entire course.

Kidd's course has some of the same great characteristics as the 1st Sand Valley course that was designed by Coore and Crenshaw.  Both have a wide open Bandon Dunes-like feeling on most of the holes.   There are no formal tee boxes on either course, which gives it a terrific clean look.  The tee areas are flat portions of the fairways.  The turf is fescue and is cut at either green or fairway heights.  The absence of rough on both courses is very refreshing.

The land on Mammoth Dunes is hillier, but still very walkable. It will likely be more forgiving as there will be 120 acres of turf vs. 75 on the C&C.
 
THE ROUTING

The course is routed around a large “V” shaped sand ridge.  Kidd used this land form, which rises 80 feet high in places, to create an interesting variety of holes that play uphill, downhill and along the sides of the ridge.  It’s easy to see how the ridge impacts many holes on this routing and topo map (North is at top).


THE HOLES

The 9 holes that are open for preview play are 1-5 and 15-18.  All of the remaining nine holes have been seeded and are growing-in nicely.  The superintendents have described the 2016-17 grow-in weather as nearly ideal.

Following are photos from all 3 of my visits.

Hole 1 – Par 4

The view from the elevated tee gives the player a good idea of what to expect over the next 18 holes:  Wide fairways offering different routes to the green, expansive views, large greens, elevation changes, and lots of sand. 


The fairway has two tiers. The lower left side and the higher right side.  Many architects would be tempted to fit some centerline bunkers into the ridge that separates the two tiers.  The lack of them here is telling.  DMK’s emphasis on this course is to make it more forgiving and playable than what he may have done in the past.  In a recent Fried Egg podcast he offered a contrast to the concept of “protecting par”, saying his goal here was to “protect birdie.”

Hitting to the left side of the fairway can yield a longer drive, but the approach is obscured by bunkers.  I like the steepness of the hill that separates the 2 sides of the fairway.


Going right may result in a shorter drive, but the view of the green is a clearer.


The approximately 40 yard wide green fits naturally into a hollow and is surrounded by lots of short grass.  This green site is another “tell” of Kidd’s philosophy.  Missing the green is not overly penalized, and players can putt, chip, or pitch their ball on the green.  Options = fun in my book.


Looking back up the fairway toward the new clubhouse.



Hole 2 – Par 4

This par 4 offers the player several interesting lines of play.  Driving right of the center bunker gives the cleanest look at the green for the second shot.  But, this line requires the longest carry over the bunker.  Playing left of the center bunker affords an easier carry and a more direct line to the green.  But, the green is partially obscured by the fronting dune here. 

David McLay Kidd said this was one of the most difficult holes to design because there wasn't an obvious place to site the green.  This is the only hole on the course with a total forced carry off the tee.  After watching players hit into the bunker, he said he decided to provide a safe route around the sand on the other holes.

From the tee.



The green is still hidden from this spot in the fairway…
.

…but it begins to appear as we get closer.
.

The green from the side and behind.


.

Hole 3 – Par 5

The third hole has a different feel than the first two as it plays through a corridor of trees.  But, that corridor must be 250+ yards wide!

From the tee.  The most direct line to the green requires a longer carry over the sand.  But a safe route exists on the left side.



The sand pinches in on the left to add interest to the second shot.



Approach to the large green that has quite a bit of movement.



Green from the side.



Hole 4 – Par 3

The first par 3 plays up the “V” ridge.  The green sits behind a solo bunker.  Tee shots hit short and right will come back down the hill. 


The green has a significant back to front slope.



Neat front left pin location on this clover shaped green.



Hole 5 – Par 4

The 5th hole marks the start of a 9 hole stretch that is routed on the outside of the “V” ridge.
This hole is visually stunning and these shots don't do it justice.

The tee shot plays from the top of the “V” ridge downhill to an expansive fairway.


The left to right slope of the green is evident from these front and behind views of the green.





Here's a great look from Evan Schiller on Twitter.  5th hole is on the left and the 6th and 7th holes are on the right.



Hole 6 – Short par 4

Short par 4s are often the most unique, creative, memorable, and fun holes on a course.  The 6th hole at Mammoth Dunes has those characteristics in spades!

Beautiful tee shot to a wide and rolling fairway.  Long hitters will have a chance to drive the green, which is behind the bunker on the right.



The boomerang shaped green is nestled between 2 small dunes.  It's 75 paces from front to back along the outside of the green!

The green is so big that I couldn't capture it in a single frame.  Here's the entrance to the green, which wraps around the dune to the right. Note the position of the sprinkler.



 From the back of the green.  The same sprinkler is running.



Great overhead shot of this remarkable green and hole taken by Evan Schiller.



Hole 7 – Par 5

The quirk continues!  Uphill tee shot over sand.


A huge cross bunker forces a 2nd shot decision:  lay-up, carry, or tack around.


Short right of the green is a mysterious dark spot!?


That dark spot is a soon-to-be-famous bunker that is crafted from the foundation of an old building.  DMK’s Casey Krahenbuhl found the foundation and built the bunker.  Here’s his Twitter photo from 2016.


The green is closer to this bunker than what was planned at one point.

October, 2016.  The green site is well behind the bunker here.
.


August, 2017.  The front of the green is fairly close to the bunker now.



Looking back at the deep green and expansive fairway on this unique hole.



Hole 8 – Par 3

This slightly downhill hole plays from the base of the "V" ridge to a flat area.

October, 2016.  Early construction.


August, 2017.  Kidd has created an island green; Sand Valley style!




« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 03:28:13 PM by Morgan Clawson »

Morgan Clawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Valley – An Early Look at Kidd’s course New
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2017, 09:56:26 PM »
Hole 9 - Par 4

Very charming and scenic hole that runs along the base of the oak covered "V" ridge.

Tee shot.



Neat little scar bunker on the edge of a ridge about 70 yards from the green.


Nice green sited at the base of the "V" ridge.


A look at the routing map reveals that the green location was shifted much closer to the "V" ridge than originally planned.  I think this was a good decision as this green has an intimate feeling to it, which is a nice contrast to the wide-open areas found on much of the course.



Hole 10 - Par 4
 
This lovely hole moves uphill to a green situated between 2 dunes.

Tee shot in August, 2017.


Tee shot in October, 2017.


Green from behind in August, 2017.


Hole 11 - Par 5

Terrific dog leg that that travels down and then up to a green that is obscured until the very end.

Tee shot to a wide fairway with offering several lines of play.


Approach shots should avoid the large bunkers.




The green is still largely hidden from 100 or so yards away.
 

The very wide green.


Hole 12 - Par 4

A strategic par 4 where hitting it down the middle is not the best choice.

From the tee, a center line bunker forces the golfer to try to play down the left or right side.  This terrific drone shot by Andy Johnson of The Fried Egg shows how massive the center bunker is.  I've marked the green locations in red numbers.


Side view of the hole taken from the top of the "V" ridge.  Center bunker is in the middle with the green on the right.


A knob in front of the green is another reminder that playing down the middle is not the best line on this hole.


The green has a significant slope from left to right (photo taken from right of green).


Hole 13 - Par 3

Picturesque par 3 that travels from ridge to ridge over a small bowl.

It is interesting to see how the shaping on this hole has changed.

October, 2016. 


August, 2017.  Note how the bunker line in front of the green changed significantly from 2016.  Also, the sand was exposed on the hill behind the green to give the hole more depth.


October, 2017. 




The unique shape of the green as seen from the top of the ridge.

« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 03:48:09 PM by Morgan Clawson »

Morgan Clawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Valley – An Early Look at Kidd’s course New
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2017, 09:56:39 PM »
Hole 14 – Par 4

This exhilarating downhill par 4 was featured in last year’s Golf Digest Armchair Architect contest. It will surely be one of the favorite holes on the course.  The tee is located at the top of the "V" ridge.  Long hitters will have a chance to use the side and downhill slopes to reach the green with their drive.

Computer generated image of the planned hole that I found on the Sand Valley website.


View of the roughed-in hole from the tee in October, 2016.
.

View of the mostly completed hole from the tee in October 2017.  David McLay Kidd said he decided to remove the 3 sisters bunkers because their style was inconsistent with other bunkering on the course.

Photo courtesy of Dan Moore

Now there is just 1 fairway bunker that is closer to the green.  The bunker seems to draw shorter tee shots toward it, thus adding a few moments of drama.


View from behind the green.  Check out the steep feeder slope! 


Hole 15 – Par 5

A long centerline bunker splits the fairway at the beginning of the hole.  The fairway on the right side slopes slightly downhill toward the green, allowing the long hitter to try to get home in 2 shots.


From the left side, the green is just barely visible (center of photo) for the second shot.


Approach shot to the green.


From behind the green.  The small valley will produce many twitchy shots, particularly when the pin is located on the left side of the green.


Hole 16 – Par 3

This stunning and fun par 3 plays downhill over a large dune that obscures much of the green.


Looking down to the green from just past the dune.


This look from behind the green shows how the grassed backside of the dune can be used to accelerate the ball onto the putting surface.  While not evident here, this green may be the most rambunctious on the course!  There are lots of slopes and bowls that must be navigated.


Hole 17 – Par 4

The last 2 holes are on flattish terrain.  The 17th has an interesting hollow in front of this terrific green that has plenty of slope.


Hole 18 – Par 5

The 18th is fittingly a BIG par 5 that is both long and wide.

Tee shot.


The final green is huge.  It’s approximately 60 yards wide and reportedly has 2 sprinkler heads located within the green itself due to its massive size.

An expansive bunker guards the front of the green.


From behind the green.  The pitch and putt course is in the background.


Club House

The first phase of the 2 story club house was completed in 2017.  The design is perfect for a course like this:  casual but nice.  There is a terrific patio off the back that sits next to the putting green, 1st tee and 18th green.  Photo from sandvalleyresort.com.


The view from behind the club house.  The tent will be removed after the 2017 season and construction of a new dining room and kitchen will commence.


Ground level rooms at the club house have charming patios.


Part of me will miss the ironic starting trailer that served Sand Valley well during its successful 2016 intro year.


Summary

Mammoth Dunes provides another unique journey through the Sand Valley dunes in a region dominated by parkland golf courses.  David McLay Kidd and team have developed a great and memorable course that will deliver many fun and surprising moments.  It shares many of the best attributes of the C&C course: an efficient routing, playability, tremendous variety of holes, tight fescue turf, and stunning terrain.  But, the Mammoth Dunes holes are unique.  They have different strategies and looks than the C&C holes.   Sand Valley will be a terrific 36 hole playground.

Thanks to the following for their great information, photos, podcasts, tweets and websites:
Casey Krahenbuhl  - Twitter:  @KrahenbuhlCasey
Dan Moore - Photography
David McLay-Kidd - Twitter:  @DavidMcLayKidd
Evan Schiller - Twitter:  @Evan_Schiller
Fried Egg - Twitter:  @the_fried_egg  >  Podcast:  Episode 10 with David McLay-Kidd, Episode 95 with Casey Krahenbuhl
Golf Getaways - Podcast:  Epidode 11 with Michael Keiser Jr.
Jason Way - Website:  geekedongolf.com
Sand Valley - Website:  sandvalleygolfresort.com
« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 01:47:17 PM by Morgan Clawson »

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Valley – An Early Look at Kidd’s course
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2017, 10:30:55 PM »
Thanks Morgan!  What is the height of the ridge?

Jason Way

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Valley – An Early Look at Kidd’s course
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2017, 10:36:47 PM »
Thanks for putting this together Morgan.  Really exciting to see some of the holes pre-grassing. 


Can't wait for May 2nd...
"Golf is a science, the study of a lifetime, in which you can exhaust yourself but never your subject." - David Forgan

Jon Cavalier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Valley – An Early Look at Kidd’s course
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2017, 10:42:01 PM »
Terrific. Thanks for the effort in compiling this post, Morgan. Enjoyed it very much.
Golf Photos via
Twitter: @linksgems
Instagram: @linksgems

Morgan Clawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Valley – An Early Look at Kidd’s course
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2017, 10:43:42 PM »
Jason Topp - 80 feet high in places.

Jason Way - Thanks!  First time I've ever seen a course in mid construction.  It was fun trying to piece the holes together.

Morgan Clawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Valley – An Early Look at Kidd’s course
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2017, 10:48:04 PM »
Terrific. Thanks for the effort in compiling this post, Morgan. Enjoyed it very much.

Jon - Thanks.  Looking forward to some Links Gems drone shots some day.

Peter Pallotta

Re: Sand Valley – An Early Look at Kidd’s course
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2017, 10:57:26 PM »
Terrific. Thanks for the effort in compiling this post, Morgan. Enjoyed it very much.
+1
That's the product of much effort, I appreciate the spirit of generosity behind it.

Matthew Rose

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Valley – An Early Look at Kidd’s course
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2017, 11:59:05 PM »
Here is a forum thread on the Perfect Golf forums about the design of the 14th hole and the winner of the contest that produced it:

http://www.perfectparallel.com/topic/7121-feature-interview-with-brian-silvernail-golf-digest-aa-winner/

The Golf Digest winner was a fellow named Brian Silvernail, who I have crossed paths with a few times in computer golf design circles going back to the days of Jack Nicklaus' Golden Bear Challenge. There are some more images of the planned 14th hole in this thread as well as a short interview with Brian.

The software used in designing this hole is called Course Forge, which is an add-on to the Unity program and is the tool used to design courses for the computer game Perfect Golf. I have been using this program to design fictional courses (as well as re-creations of some real courses) for a couple of years; it is a lot of fun and pretty much the closest some of us amateur hacks will ever get to pursuing this passion.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 12:02:21 AM by Matthew Rose »
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Valley – An Early Look at Kidd’s course
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2017, 12:09:33 AM »
Looks like a great property and will be an enjoyable course. What I like most is that it seems to have its own character and doesn't remind me of any other course.



Tim Weiman

Morgan Clawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Valley – An Early Look at Kidd’s course
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2017, 09:56:12 AM »
Here is a forum thread on the Perfect Golf forums about the design of the 14th hole and the winner of the contest that produced it:

http://www.perfectparallel.com/topic/7121-feature-interview-with-brian-silvernail-golf-digest-aa-winner/

The Golf Digest winner was a fellow named Brian Silvernail, who I have crossed paths with a few times in computer golf design circles going back to the days of Jack Nicklaus' Golden Bear Challenge. There are some more images of the planned 14th hole in this thread as well as a short interview with Brian.

The software used in designing this hole is called Course Forge, which is an add-on to the Unity program and is the tool used to design courses for the computer game Perfect Golf. I have been using this program to design fictional courses (as well as re-creations of some real courses) for a couple of years; it is a lot of fun and pretty much the closest some of us amateur hacks will ever get to pursuing this passion.

Matthew - Thanks for attaching that link. Fun to see Brian Silvernail's design.  That software is pretty amazing.

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Valley – An Early Look at Kidd’s course
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2017, 01:37:22 PM »
Great stuff Morgan!!

I already have this right next to Forest Dunes as "obvious future visits!"
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Morgan Clawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Valley – An Early Look at Kidd’s course
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2017, 04:10:05 PM »
Hole 15 photos fixed.

Great stuff Morgan!!

I already have this right next to Forest Dunes as "obvious future visits!"

Brad - thanks!  Forest Dunes is on my to-do list too.

CJames

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Valley – An Early Look at Kidd’s course
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2017, 07:49:16 PM »
Thank you Morgan.  To Tim's point, seeing the DMK course in person will confirm the perception that the course has a unique look and feel; it is big, bold, and brawny and I'm expecting a lot of thrills and peals of laughter.  Importantly, in my opinion, it is very distinct from the C&C layout. 

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Valley – An Early Look at Kidd’s course
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2017, 04:08:50 AM »
Wow. Some property.
Could someone please post on a satmap where it actually is.
atb

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Valley – An Early Look at Kidd’s course
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2017, 05:18:21 AM »
Wow. Some property.
Could someone please post on a satmap where it actually is.
atb


Its in the USA Thomas. ;)

Morgan Clawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Valley – An Early Look at Kidd’s course
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2017, 10:45:06 AM »
Here's the location on a map:



Wow. Some property.
Could someone please post on a satmap where it actually is.
atb
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 02:27:00 PM by Morgan Clawson »

Ryan Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Valley – An Early Look at Kidd’s course
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2017, 11:31:30 AM »
This is an impressive thread and cheers for pulling together all of the information into a concise and readable format. (photos, twitter, websites, etc.)
"Bandon is like Chamonix for skiers or the North Shore of Oahu for surfers,” Rogers said. “It is where those who really care end up."

George Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Valley – An Early Look at Kidd’s course
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2017, 01:41:28 PM »
Here are a couple new angles from my visit in late September:

Looking back at #1 from #17/18 - lots of sand!



Somewhere near the tee shot on #18


Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Valley – An Early Look at Kidd’s course
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2017, 07:41:04 PM »
I'm digging the look of that 13th hole.  I hope they shave the edges tight and allow for ball to back up off of the green and tumble downwards.


Looks like a great location and design for a small little teaser a la 7th at Pebble, 10th at PV & the lil' Taz Devil at Barnbougle.
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Valley – An Early Look at Kidd’s course
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2017, 09:04:05 PM »
You mean to tell me they are ruining a perfectly good dune buggy site fire golf! ;D
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Andy Ryall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Valley – An Early Look at Kidd’s course
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2017, 10:17:33 PM »
Well done and just what the doctor ordered on a Minnesota winter night.   Great post.

Morgan Clawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Valley – An Early Look at Kidd’s Course
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2017, 03:45:07 PM »
Thought I would post this original routing that was presented on TV in 2014.  This routing had returning 9s.  The club house location was at the opposite end of the course from where it is being built now.   The location of the club house was changed so that it could serve both courses.

While some of the holes look the same, there are quite a few differences.  I think this is interesting as the original plan was the winner of the “bake-off” between architects.  But, the realities of building the infrastructure necessitated some significant changes.

I’m glad the course is being built a 18 continuous holes as it feels like you are a long journey that is very isolated in places.

Original routing.


Current routing.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 02:34:48 PM by Morgan Clawson »

Morgan Clawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Valley – An Early Look at Kidd’s Course
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2017, 12:27:58 PM »
Here's a rendering of the new club house.  I like it!

Past the club house is the 18th fairway of the C+C.



« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 02:16:55 PM by Morgan Clawson »

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back