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Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Troon, The Open 2016
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2016, 04:42:43 PM »
My main issue with Troon...a ton of holes between 340 and 380 yards...simply not enough variety.



Playing from the whites then there are three with another three just outside this parameter. Hardly a ton, mmmmm..... :-\ 

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Troon, The Open 2016
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2016, 04:44:34 AM »
Sean


I think you must have a much different interpretation of significant. A variation in wind speed that results in at least half a club change is significant IMO, as is a wind that swings round at least 15 degrees (and generally you get much bigger variations than that). That's all it takes to make the player think, re-assess and re-adjust. If that's not significant then I don't know what is.


Having played the vast bulk of my golf over the last 20 odd years on the coast I can say that getting at least those kind of minimum changes in a round is standard and usually the variations are larger still. To imply, as I think you do, that the wind is constant in direction and strength for 3 to 4 hours at a stretch most times that you play the course just isn't credible IMO.


Niall

Matt Dawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Troon, The Open 2016
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2016, 05:02:57 AM »
Are the dunes at Troon sufficiently high that the wind is likely to funnel or change direction as it blows between and over them?
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I'd say not really, Thomas. Recollecting as best I can, the first 3 and last 3 holes are on pretty flat land so little in the way of dunes. The wind whips across these holes as you are right there at sea level, not perched above it as at Turnberry or hidden inland as at Lytham. I can certainly see that stands would affect play at an exposed hole like the 17th for example.

The duneland comes into play a bit more around the far end of the course, from 7 through to 10, but it is all fairly gentle. I remember the approach to the dog leg 7th as being really good with mounding both sides. I thought it was a great hole. The 8th of course has the big mound on the left of the green, then you play a tough par 4 hole through mounds at 9. Turning back for home the 10th has some good movement, especially for the second shot. After that I don't really recall much elevation change.

I think in a nutshell that's why Troon doesn't get much wider appreciation. It's certainly a very good test of golf, but I'm struggling to point to any real highlights that would cause you to remember them. You need to execute a lot of good straight shots coming in without much in the way of definition or respite. I do recall the higher handicappers I was partnered with found it a few notches too tough for them, and as a result were a little downhearted afterwards. And they played from tees that were probably appropriate for their game

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Troon, The Open 2016
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2016, 06:40:45 AM »


I think Sean underplays Troon...


The way 7, 8 and 10 connect is stunning and all three are great golf holes. Big dunes as well.


11 has that really tough charm with the gorse and railway line wall. 12 has beautiful land movement tee to green. 13th is a fantastic hole with very good offset drive and approach in to saddle green. 15 has a good bit of quirk with the green hidden over a large short grass shoulder. 17 is a tough and very good par-3. 18 has the wonderful connection to the clubhouse. First 4 less characterful relying somewhat on bunkering (no bad thing) but 5 and 6 have plenty of charm.


I liked it a lot. Would like to see it again.


Ally



I thought the most interesting thing about several of the early holes was the positioning of the tee box relative to the fairway - very much on a diagonal, so while there appeared to be plenty of fairway to hit if your room a conservative line away from the bunkers your ball would run thru the fairway send into the light rough, making the approach very challenging given the angle you now had to come into. I'd never before (or since?) seen that design aspect before. I'm think holes 2-3-4.


Separately certainly 6-10 are strong and 17-18 were notable.


Matt,


I don't think this is an unusual concept with good links course - I am very much a fan of offset fairways of this nature. What you noticed in Troon is far more pronounced up the road in Western Gailes. In fact up there it is overplayed just a little.


Notably it is to do with the dune system. Often a tee is placed just inside the primary dune near the sea with the shot played over the secondary dune ridge to an offset fairway that plays parallel and on the land side of that secondary ridge. The walk is then back to the next tee on the sea side and the idea is repeated. The formation of dune systems makes this shot a common one to set up and when done well (and not too often) it is a great feature.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Troon, The Open 2016
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2016, 06:50:52 AM »


I think Sean underplays Troon...


The way 7, 8 and 10 connect is stunning and all three are great golf holes. Big dunes as well.


11 has that really tough charm with the gorse and railway line wall. 12 has beautiful land movement tee to green. 13th is a fantastic hole with very good offset drive and approach in to saddle green. 15 has a good bit of quirk with the green hidden over a large short grass shoulder. 17 is a tough and very good par-3. 18 has the wonderful connection to the clubhouse. First 4 less characterful relying somewhat on bunkering (no bad thing) but 5 and 6 have plenty of charm.


I liked it a lot. Would like to see it again.


Ally



I thought the most interesting thing about several of the early holes was the positioning of the tee box relative to the fairway - very much on a diagonal, so while there appeared to be plenty of fairway to hit if your room a conservative line away from the bunkers your ball would run thru the fairway send into the light rough, making the approach very challenging given the angle you now had to come into. I'd never before (or since?) seen that design aspect before. I'm think holes 2-3-4.


Separately certainly 6-10 are strong and 17-18 were notable.


Matt,


I don't think this is an unusual concept with good links course - I am very much a fan of offset fairways of this nature. What you noticed in Troon is far more pronounced up the road in Western Gailes. In fact up there it is overplayed just a little.


Notably it is to do with the dune system. Often a tee is placed just inside the primary dune near the sea with the shot played over the secondary dune ridge to an offset fairway that plays parallel and on the land side of that secondary ridge. The walk is then back to the next tee on the sea side and the idea is repeated. The formation of dune systems makes this shot a common one to set up and when done well (and not too often) it is a great feature.


Maybe you are right Ally.  But I get nowhere near the joy to be alive factor with Troon as I do with Prestwick etc etc etc. Troon lacks the character of some links which are batting in the same neighbourhood.  I struggle to think of Troon as a 7 and Deal as a 7.  To me there is clear level of difference in quality...so for me Troon is a 6...very good course, but it doesn't hang with the big boys like its ranking suggests.


Ciao 


Ciao
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, Malone, Cruit Island & St Pats

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Troon, The Open 2016
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2016, 09:09:28 AM »
Matt/Ally,


Off-set tees is something I love. I'm not sure I've seen much if any of it as a deliberate design concept though. To me you mainly see it, as at Troon, where the hole has been lengthened by taking the tee back but where it's not feasible to take the tee straight back because of the preceding green or some other obstacle. I can think of numerous examples like that but not sure of any where the hole was designed like that at the outset. Could well be wrong on that.


Niall

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Troon, The Open 2016
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2016, 10:34:41 AM »
Niall,


I know what you are saying and I agree that does happen as well. But it's a definite design decision on some courses. Old diagrams by Simpson, Colt etc... were even drawn that way for quite a few holes. And at some courses (including Western Gailes on occasion), it comes about simply by overlapping every tee on the sea side of the previous green.


Sean,


I hear you too. Although I get an incredible joy to be alive factor on repeated plays on some of these less quirky, "championship" style links courses. In fact, I'd go as far as saying that in the end, these kind of courses give more back from repeated plays than do those with an abundance of quirk. Probably why I think the perfect courses are actually those that sit somewhere in between, those with great ground movement but more of a big scale, consistent and elegant feel... Sandwich, The Old Course, Portrush, Dornoch...

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Troon, The Open 2016
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2016, 06:36:02 PM »
In the 1980's, when I lived in the USA and spent 1-4 months every year in Dornoch, there were only two courses that I played every year, on my way up to the Highlands, and they were Muirfield and Troon.  Both of these venues are raw meat for the afficionados here who dislike subtle simplicity and brutal straightforwardness.


Troon is one of the finest courses in the world, as are all of the current Open venues.  For those who like to pick nits, go ahead and pick them.  If it is ye it is ye who are the losers in this debate and in future pleasure.
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Troon, The Open 2016
« Reply #33 on: June 30, 2016, 05:39:02 AM »
Rich


With Troon (and Muirfield) was it love/appreciation at first sight or was it something that grew on you the more you played the course(s) ?


Niall

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Troon, The Open 2016
« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2016, 06:21:34 AM »
Looks like RTGC will be spared the same fate as HCEG in that they voted to have lady members last night. Not sure where that leaves the ladies club but hopefully they will be OK.

Anyway, back to the architecture  ;D

Niall

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal Troon, The Open 2016
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2016, 05:01:10 PM »
 
I love the fact that so many here have rubbished the place; I didn't go with particularly high expectations.
 
I had a fantastic day there on a great golf course. Interesting trip along, up and around, before a tough trip back.
 
And before someone on here pipes up that I only feel that way because I started 3, 4 and played to my handicap, I'm going to say of course it could have been because of the wonderful company I had!
 
on 29th May I am riding 100 Miles to help raise funds for Dementia Research. All donations are welcome.
https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/ridelondon-tonymuldoon

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