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Stan Dodd

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Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #100 on: May 25, 2019, 10:11:55 AM »
My first play of Elie, I turned up in tailored shorts, but with American style socks.  I was informed that I would need "proper" socks to play.  I joyfully paid 20 quid for my long socks.  Enjoyed the round very much and the long socks gave my buddies plenty to talk about.  It just added to the memories of a great day.  I play Elie any chance I get.

John Mayhugh

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Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #101 on: May 25, 2019, 03:08:41 PM »
With respect to Garland and others, I think there is a tendency for visitors (both UK and foreign) to forget that in the UK they are generally playing at a members club and not just some pay and play facility. Folk just seem to take access for granted over here when in fact they are privileged to be able to play the course and and enjoy the clubhouse as visitors. If you look at it in that way then I think some would be a bit more respectful of the club rules, which in effect are the rules of the members.

Niall's is a very clear explanation.

The members of the club have decided that they prefer to be more traditional. I played there on Wednesday, and the day was so nice I decided to wear shorts. The hose I bought to comply with their rules only cost $6, and I had no objection to wearing them. This was my second visit to Elie. I was treated the same as an unaccompanied single as I was when I was part of a member's group, which speaks well of the club. In general, I've found essentially all UK clubs to be welcoming. It seems a small expectation for a visitor to simply abide by the same rules that the members have to follow.


Hopefully Elie will still be a viable club the next time I'm in Fife. I would love to return.

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #102 on: May 25, 2019, 04:02:09 PM »
The hose I bought to comply with their rules only cost $6, and I had no objection to wearing them.


In order to facilitate transatlantic relations, I think a John Mayhugh "quirk picture" of John Mayhugh is said socks is needed!!


I support all forms of kooky dress codes as these help make our sport of golf unique in the world. We can also learn from our friends at Wembley (Crew), which is hosting their own Kings Cup in July:






"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #103 on: May 25, 2019, 04:27:27 PM »
Mike,
I don't think anyone took one. I was in a blue short, lighter blue shorts, red hose, and white golf shoes. Pearce is always fond of the red, white & blue combo.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #104 on: May 25, 2019, 05:15:50 PM »
Garland,

I was so sorry to hear from others of this thread and your unsatisfactory experience.  As a proud member of the Golf House Club it is, of course, extremely disappointing to hear that an unaccompanied American visitor has had such an unsatisfying experience.  I will take this matter up with the committee.
What I propose to suggest is that the club conducts an urgent and complete review of the way it deals with unaccompanied visitor play.  In doing that, I will ask them to pay particular attention to how US private clubs treat unaccompanied visitor play.  Given Elie's prestige and history and(as has been pointed to already in this thread, it's strong connections with the R&A), we will, I am sure, take soundings from clubs such as Seminole, San Francisco Golf Club and Pine Valley and learn from the way those clubs would have handled an unaccompanied visitor in stretch denim.  I have little doubt that the club will learn from this episode.  It seems to me that the only way forward for the club will be to adopt the stance of those US private clubs and ban unaccompanied visitor play completely.  I'm sure you'll agree that is the only way forward for private UK clubs to avoid inconveniencing people like you and your son in future.
As to your concern that Elie and its traditions are killing junior golf in Scotland.  We struggle along with just 160 junior members and the waiting list for membership is just a couple of years, so I will bring this to the urgent attention of the committee.

Finally, I’m delighted to see that you have been able to see the bigger picture.  Rather than take your anger and frustration on the airline, who, after all, did nothing wrong other than lose your baggage, you have seen the important issue and focussed in on it.  A lesser man might even have thought of asking the airline to pay for the cost of those trousers.

Yours Respectfully,
Mark

Thanks Mark,

That brought a smile to my face.

AARGH! Getting old means goofing up on posts. Mark, I appreciate your humor and meant to say so, but messed up the original version of this post.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 08:27:06 AM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #105 on: May 25, 2019, 05:23:40 PM »
Mike,
I don't think anyone took one. I was in a blue short, lighter blue shorts, red hose, and white golf shoes. Pearce is always fond of the red, white & blue ensamble.
I'll stand in for you, John, with my Red, White and Blue combo...

By the way... this is from the Buda at St Enodoc.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 05:25:38 PM by Michael Whitaker »
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #106 on: May 25, 2019, 05:29:18 PM »
Mike,
I don't think anyone took one. I was in a blue short, lighter blue shorts, red hose, and white golf shoes. Pearce is always fond of the red, white & blue combo.


Being forced to observe the Mayhugh/Pearce colour combo from adjacent fairways induced at least one Scintillating Scotoma episode in my optic nerve.
The combined effect of the vivid colours, their erratic jerky swings and the speed of their incredibly fast play created an atmosphere so psychedelic that Hunter S. Thomson would have felt very much at home.
I hear the Military want to speak with these gentlemen for advice on camouflage. They're looking at resurrecting the old wartime Dazzle Ships and want to employ the same jarring rainbow of ill-advised hues and tones.
At least their socks were of the correct length though, so they've got that going for them.
Love,
F.

The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #107 on: May 25, 2019, 05:35:06 PM »
But, this is my favorite combo... the famous Royal Cinque Ports stripes!

The power of the Deal Stripes allowed me to chop down the mighty oak which is Ben Stephens at Hollinwell!!!  ;D

"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #108 on: May 25, 2019, 05:40:43 PM »
Mike,
On the upside, your socks appear to have scared away the UFO hovering above the trees there.
Once again, the world owes you a debt of gratitude for averting the threat of an impending alien invasion.
Many thanks,
With love,
Marty. ;D
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #109 on: May 25, 2019, 05:49:02 PM »
Mike,
On the upside, your socks appear to have scared away the UFO hovering above the trees there.
Once again, the world owes you a debt of gratitude for averting the threat of an impending alien invasion.
Many thanks,
With love,
Marty. ;D
Just for that I am going with the socks every day of your participation in this year's Buda! Get ready... the power of the HOSE is on its way!
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #110 on: May 25, 2019, 06:45:50 PM »
Mike,
On the upside, your socks appear to have scared away the UFO hovering above the trees there.
Once again, the world owes you a debt of gratitude for averting the threat of an impending alien invasion.
Many thanks,
With love,
Marty. ;D
Just for that I am going with the socks every day of your participation in this year's Buda! Get ready... the power of the HOSE is on its way!
I, for one, hope you have more than one pair.

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #111 on: May 25, 2019, 07:48:56 PM »
But, this is my favorite combo... the famous Royal Cinque Ports stripes!




Fabulous.


Son #1 has been lobbying me to be open to white shoes for some time now. Whit in white shoes and RCP Stripes pretty much kills any objections!!
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #112 on: May 26, 2019, 07:26:04 AM »
Its a shame that Garland didnt decide to vent his frustration somewhere other than this thread, but at least now we can be certain that no GCAer will ever turn up at Elie and be surprised about the dress code!


Having just played 2 rounds around Elie this week several things seem worth mentioning:


I didnt really pay much attention to the scorecard before or during the round, and it was only on going back over this thread that I fully took in the absence of par 5s (probably as a pair of bad drives meant I thought (hoped) the 1st was a par 5) or the small number of par 3s (just the two). What this means is that despite there being 16 par 4s, at no point did I find it repetitive, boring or get the feeling of "oh no, not another par 4". Every one of those par 4s is unique and fun.


What a set of greens! Plenty of interesting contours, humps, bowls or other exciting things going on!


As with St Andrews, Moray or a number of other Scottish courses, Elie has the feeling of starting and finishing in the centre of the town. This is very much part of the spirit of place that I love at so many Scottish links courses!


A round at Elie really does meet Lorne Smith's "Joy to be Alive" and so hopefully people can skip past some of the clothing commentary on here and get to the good stuff! Mark Pearce, you are a very lucky man to be a member at Golf House Club, Elie!!


Cheers,


James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell (Notts), Brora, Aberdovey, Royal St Davids, Woodhall Spa, Broadstone, Parkstone, Cleeve, Painswick, Minchinhampton, Hoylake

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #113 on: May 26, 2019, 10:59:48 AM »
Son #1 has been lobbying me to be open to white shoes for some time now. Whit in white shoes and RCP Stripes pretty much kills any objections!!
If the white Ecco's are good enough for Freddy they are good enough for me!
« Last Edit: May 27, 2019, 07:39:22 AM by Michael Whitaker »
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Ryan Coles

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #114 on: May 26, 2019, 08:11:58 PM »
Elie is hell bent on enforcing their arcane rules. As far as I am concerned, they may be part of the reason there is a thread about Scottish golf being in trouble.

Our luggage did not make it with us to Scotland, and my son wore fashionable stretch denim Jean's on the plane for comfort so he did not have his golfing pants to wear. No matter that half the eight or so lads and gents gathered by the first tee were more shoddy in appearance with their old corduroy pants and such. No excuses accepted, and a shallow lecture on tradition was what we got. So their shop made a sale of one pair of pants, which resulted in them no having a chance to sell four meals, and no prospect of at least two of us returning.

If they had some brains they would know their stupid rule was made for the Levi's of old, and enforce it appropriately.

Too bad I'm not a Twitter user so I can excoriate them there too.


Assuming it was explained what had happened rather than just assumed he could play in jeans, it seems to me that the Club could have perhaps shown some flexibility and let him play. Or if jeans are so abhorrent, deduct the cost of the trousers purchased from the green-fee.


Lots of Clubs used to have waiting lists and joining fees etc and hid behind this fact whilst treating people shoddily. Funny how things change and may yet change, even at the Elie’s of this world.


Look after those on the way up, as you’ll likely meet them on the way down, as the saying goes.


Funny how other golfers take delight in someone being ticked off, turned away etc. The ‘joy to make grown men wear long socks, whilst your mongrel dog runs amok’ factor.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 08:17:14 PM by Ryan Coles »

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #115 on: May 27, 2019, 02:52:29 AM »
Ryan,


Why should the club take the financial hit?  It's allowing unaccompanied visitors to play and it has a set of rules.  They should abide by them.  There is a party here that is responsible for the position Garland and his son found themselves in and which has an obligation to sort this and that's the airline.  Private members clubs are not charities.  You appear to be allowing your dislike of the traditional private members clubs to cloud your judgment on this.

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #116 on: May 27, 2019, 05:12:51 AM »
Why should the club take the financial hit? 


Mark,


This is where I do miss Bob Huntley, as he had a gift for expressing a solution/opportunity to these types of transatlantic cultural threads. In an ever evolving transactional world, I do like to step back and think - "What would Old Tom and Uncle Bob do?"




The good news is, this thread made me step back and decide to bring a sport coat to this weeks Ireland trip. It is not needed, but let's call it a tribute to Robert Huntley, Member of the Royal & Ancient Golf Club on Memorial Day in the USA.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2019, 05:19:11 AM by Mike Sweeney »
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE 1-4
« Reply #117 on: May 27, 2019, 07:27:45 AM »
A new rule of thumb for me: if the tallest structure in town is still the church steeple, the adjacent golf course is sure to be a top flight charmer.

Maybe the residents of Earlsferry are not as religious as you may believe.  The tallest structure is dedicated to government in the guise of a town hall. 

In Elie there is a business which suggests Garland may be a secret admirer of the course.  I reckon it is high time to come out of the closet and be counted.


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Turnberry, Isle of Harris, Benbecula, Askernish, Traigh, Iona, Tobermory, Minehead & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Ryan Coles

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #118 on: May 29, 2019, 07:09:31 PM »
Ryan,


Why should the club take the financial hit?  It's allowing unaccompanied visitors to play and it has a set of rules.  They should abide by them.  There is a party here that is responsible for the position Garland and his son found themselves in and which has an obligation to sort this and that's the airline.  Private members clubs are not charities.  You appear to be allowing your dislike of the traditional private members clubs to cloud your judgment on this.


Unaccompanied visitors.....


Not a particularly Scottish expression.


I’ve nothing against genuinely private members clubs. Those who rely on overseas greenfees, whilst revelling in bringing down overseas visitors a peg or two, because they can play our courses, but we can’t play theirs, less so.


The approach that they ought to be grateful for the opportunity to subsidise the member subscriptions, but receive little goodwill or assistance in return, is not one I personally agree with.


I understand even Muirfield has spare jackets on hand so guests can comply with the dress code without either being turned away, or sent to the shops.


Like I say, note how often the flag is lowered and hope petty, small minded unhelpful attitudes don’t deter those coming along next.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #119 on: June 11, 2019, 04:42:07 AM »
Who would have believed such a fuss could be stirred up because a dress code was enforced?  I will say it again, we all think our story carries more weight than the fella stood next to us. Most of the time folks embrace the situation, get a few photos and laugh it off in future stories. Ya gotta have a laugh. The sad part of this saga is the course wasn't enjoyed. Ya can't please all the folks all the time.

Ciao
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 04:44:51 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Turnberry, Isle of Harris, Benbecula, Askernish, Traigh, Iona, Tobermory, Minehead & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #120 on: June 11, 2019, 05:21:42 AM »
Ryan,


The rule that applies to the member applies to the visitor. It’s exceptionally fair and reasonable.


One of my clubs is very strict with member/guest dress code, but basically allows an “anything goes” approach on Thursdays when corporate groups play on the course. It’s a significant issue and annoyance for the membership.


The simplest, most fair thing you can do is have a clear set of rules and apply them for everyone, which is what the club did in this instance.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #121 on: June 11, 2019, 10:43:24 PM »
... The sad part of this saga is the course wasn't enjoyed. Ya can't please all the folks all the time.

Ciao

No one said the course wasn't enjoyed. I just said I would choose to play elsewhere in the future. There are plenty of other Doak 3s out there to choose from for my limited chances to cross the pond to play.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #122 on: June 11, 2019, 10:55:07 PM »
Scott,

I don't think you got the gist of Ryan's post.

I happened to find the membership fees for Elie online. To be a "member" there costs less than a yearly pass for the public course nearest me here. Clearly the "members" there are capitalists engaged in supply and demand economics.

It seems to me that is what Ryan was getting at.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #123 on: June 12, 2019, 03:54:17 AM »
Scott,

I don't think you got the gist of Ryan's post.

What does Ryan's point have to do with the matter at hand?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Turnberry, Isle of Harris, Benbecula, Askernish, Traigh, Iona, Tobermory, Minehead & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #124 on: June 12, 2019, 05:02:07 AM »
Scott,

I don't think you got the gist of Ryan's post.

I happened to find the membership fees for Elie online. To be a "member" there costs less than a yearly pass for the public course nearest me here. Clearly the "members" there are capitalists engaged in supply and demand economics.

It seems to me that is what Ryan was getting at.
Elie doesn't make a lot from visitor play.  Unlike Crail, where I'm also a member, it is, during Summer months, pretty much packed with member play.  The club has a decent and full membership (with something like 160 junior members) and runs many popular social events.  It has a very profitable pro shop (I have heard it suggested that the pro at Elie is one of the most remunerative appointments as a club pro in Scotland) and has relatively low maintenance costs.  The membership rate is not substantially subsidised by visitor play.


I used the expression unaccompanied visitor because it would be readily understood by those in the US reading this.  The chip Ryan has on his shoulder is well demonstrated by his utterly unfounded and absurd suggestion that the club was"revelling in bringing down a visitor a peg or two".  I know that starter and that expression is both offensive and miles wide of the mark.  The club has a dress code.  The starter would, very politely and with some charm explain to ANY player, member, non-member, American, Japanese, German, British, 70 year old, 15 year old, whoever, that the dress code needed to be followed.



As others have pointed out, all the starter did was ask Garland and his son to comply with the same rules the members follow.  This whole argument is, to use English that Ryan would appreciate, bollocks.  I have still seen no explanation why Garland felt it right to take his anger out on the club when the fault here lies with the airline. 

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