[BCowan]

Is Ann Arbor generally recognized as the oldest in Michigan? Dating to 1901, according to this list, it seems odd that the state would not have a pre-1900 course/club, given that several nearby states -- Ohio, Wisconsin, Illinois -- have several pre-1900 courses.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0ahUKEwix49OI9KjNAhUGEFIKHRMPAnAQFgglMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.michigangolfer.com%2Fwin05-06%2Fwin0106_12-17a.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEbbHNIujQPb4qnFUdtsb9U9YwKZg&bvm=bv.124272578,d.aXo&cad=rja

[Ken Fry]

Ken,

Woodstock in Indiana is older than Riverside. It was the original Country Club of Indianapolis. The history is on the CCI website. South Bend had a course prior to this, but I don't think it still exists. Maybe Ken Fry might know more about that?

To Sven's point, how can you play the original?  At the time many of these clubs were founded, the courses built were quite basic and rudimentary.  In the South Bend area, St. Joseph Valley Country Club was founded in 1900 on the land that became Miami Country Club in 1916 which is now Eberhart Petro Golf Course but none of the earlier courses exists today.


As far as the oldest course in Indiana, from Woodstock Club Website as presented by James P. Fadely, Ph.D:

"The history of golf at Woodstock has its origins in the Indianapolis Country Club on this site. Golf was introduced to Indianapolis in 1896 at Country Club. Alvin S. Lockard, a prominent figure in Indianapolis society, made a trip around the world and saw golf played for the first time in India. Lockard was told by an Englishman to buy a “Badminton” upon his arrival in London, which would give the rules and regulations of the game. This Lockard did and, upon arrival home, he got a set of clubs and balls through Charles Mayer & Company. Another version of the story had him buying practice balls and a set of clubs in England. In 1896, Lockard, along with Phil Watson, J.A. Barnard, and Robert Martindale, laid out two holes of golf at Country Club and charged players $5 annually to use the “course”. The following spring, in 1897, the four men built a nine-hole, 2400-yard course in the field adjoining Country Club, with Lockard apparently assuming much of the cost of the course expansion. It was one of the earliest golf courses built west of the Appalachians. Only Country Club members were allowed to play the course. Interestingly, the golf club seems to have been an independent organization and yet still a part of the club. Golf players had to have Country Club membership and had the privileges of the clubhouse. The Club had authority over the golf field from 1896 until 1899 because it leased the forty to fifty acres which the course occupied. However, starting in 1899, the golf club paid the lease rental for the land which left only the first and last holes on Country Club territory, thus increasing the authority of the golf club operation over its course. The old farmhouse that was used as the first clubhouse on the site had an enclosed bowling alley that was converted into a locker house. The Club also built a pro shop and Arthur Tweedy, a junior amateur champion of Great Britain, came to Country Club from England about 1900. He was the first golf professional in the State of Indiana. After Tweedy, the Club brought a succession of Scots to the position. Led by Francis Herd, President of Country Club, golfers from private clubs in seven cities around the state founded the Indiana Golf Association (IGA) on 11 September 1900 and scheduled their first state tournament on 11-13 October 1900 at Country Club. "
 

[Nigel Islam]

Thanks for posting that Ken. I've tried to find something that still exists that predates Woodstock, but I can't.  I feel good about that being the oldest course in Indiana. I don't know anybody that's played it, but I've driven by it a lot.

[James Brown]

Thanks for posting that Ken. I've tried to find something that still exists that predates Woodstock, but I can't.  I feel good about that being the oldest course in Indiana. I don't know anybody that's played it, but I've driven by it a lot.

I know some Woodstock members.  Happy to connect you.

[Mike Sweeney]

A friend of a friend is on a quest to play the oldest golf course in each of the lower 48 states, and has managed to get 38 of them so far, but the last ten have him stuck.

Ken,


After reading through this, the question that comes up for me is, does he want to play the oldest club or the oldest course?


I don't really know Greenwich CC, but I assume it has elements of an original course. For my taste, it would not fit my definition of "close to original" course. Fenwick and Shenny would be better fits in Connecticut.


Maybe he will have to start over


Just curious, can you post his courses so far? Thanks

[MCirba]

That's a cool list, Ken.   I definitely try to find the oldest course in any area I travel to and play, as well, and I've probably played more muni's than anyone I know as they are near and dear to my heart.

Of those courses your friend has played, I've played;


 
 
DE
  Ed Oliver Golf Course
  Wilmington
 
1901
 
FL
  Ocean Course at Breakers
  Palm Beach
 
1897
 
LA 

Audubon GC
  New Orleans
 
1898
 
ME
  Kebo Valley (Playing it this coming Saturday)
 Bar Harbor
 
1891
 
 
MS
  Great Southern
  Gulfport
 
1908
 
 
OH
  Ottawa Park Golf Course (Playing this August, hopefully)
  Toledo
 
1894
 
SC
  Palmetto Golf Club
  Aiken
 
1892
 
SD
  Minnehaha Country Club
  Sioux Falls
 
1905
 
UT
  Forest Dale Golf Course
  Salt Lake City
 
1906
 

[Chris_Blakely]

That's a cool list, Ken.   I definitely try to find the oldest course in any area I travel to and play, as well, and I've probably played more muni's than anyone I know as they are near and dear to my heart.

Of those courses your friend has played, I've played;


 
 
DE
  Ed Oliver Golf Course
  Wilmington
 
1901
 
FL
  Ocean Course at Breakers
  Palm Beach
 
1897
 
LA 

Audubon GC
  New Orleans
 
1898
 
ME
  Kebo Valley (Playing it this coming Saturday)
 Bar Harbor
 
1891
 
 
MS
  Great Southern
  Gulfport
 
1908
 
 
OH
  Ottawa Park Golf Course (Playing this August, hopefully)
  Toledo
 
1894
 
SC
  Palmetto Golf Club
  Aiken
 
1892
 
SD
  Minnehaha Country Club
  Sioux Falls
 
1905
 
UT
  Forest Dale Golf Course
  Salt Lake City
 
1906

Mike,


Be careful when you play Ottawa Park GC.  The course has a lot of driveable par 4's (on the order of 270 to 310) and it can get quite backed up.  Not sure how much of Sylvanus Piierson Jermain's course remains as Art Hills did a big renovation of it years ago.


thanks,


Chris

[MCirba]

Thanks for the heads up, Chris.   

I'm particularly intrigued to play there as it hosted the first US Publinks.

[Chris_Blakely]

Thanks for the heads up, Chris.   

I'm particularly intrigued to play there as it hosted the first US Publinks.

Mike,


You are welcome.


Funny, that is why I played the course originally, well that and date it originally opened.


18th is a very good finishing hole.


Enjoy.


Chris

[Dan_Callahan]

In Mass, I thought all 18 at Myopia were in the ground before 18 holes at TCC were built?

[MCirba]

In Mass, I thought all 18 at Myopia were in the ground before 18 holes at TCC were built?

Dan,

The first nine at TCC preceded the first nine at Myopia by a year, 1893 vs 1894.

I believe you're correct that Leeds had the second nine in Myopia in play by 1898 while the full 18 at TCC was 1899.

[Tim Leahy]

Old Del  Monte in Monterey, CA bills itself as the oldest course in continuous operation west of the Mississippi. Is that incorrect?

[John Keenan]

Tim



Mare Island in Vallejo claims on its website that it was established in 1892 making it the oldest course west of the Mississippi.


I bet the devil is in the details 9 versus 18 one closed for a time or some other detail or event.


John

[Sven Nilsen]

There are a ton of questions that come up when looking a the list above.


I have serious doubts that courses like Aetna Springs and Gearhart are as old as people say they are.  I've seen nothing to indicate golf was being played in California in 1891, and most sources credit Burlingame as the first course in the state.  For the Oregon course, there are newspaper articles from the teens noting that the first seaside course was built in the state in 1911.


Some of these courses have been completed reworked over the years.  For example, Butte CC was rebuilt completely in 1939.


A few of these are complete mysteries to me, including Kemmerer in WY.  The website for the course (n/k/a Fossil Island GC) says it was designed by Dick Phelps in the 1920's.  As far as I know, Mr. Phelps wasn't alive then, and there is no record of a course in Kemmerer that I've found in any of the early guides or other sources.


Sven

[RJ_Daley]

I was under the impression that Tescumbia in Green Lake WI was our oldest...

[John Keenan]

Sven

I just looked at the Aetna Springs website and it dates the course from 1893. Given the remote location even today it is hard to imagine a course being built there. Maybe a farmer built a hole or two for recreation in his field. I am not all that familiar with the history of that area so there may well be a reason that I am not aware of. If someone has some background on the history of Aetna it would be interesting to read.

Mare's date makes sense as it was a military base.The item of 9 versus 18 is a key item. Those built as 18 would claim, I suspect to be the oldest "real" course. 

Claiming to be the oldest course seems to a marketing issue for both public and private clubs. None the less quite a lot of fun  to learn about the history of these old courses.


John

[Sven Nilsen]

I was under the impression that Tescumbia in Green Lake WI was our oldest...

Tuscumbia was reported in the early guides as having been laid out in 1898.  A 1900 article notes it as "one of" the oldest courses in the state.  There were courses built earlier, including Milwaukee CC's first course and Oconomowoc.


There's a fallacy out there that Tuscumbia was first laid out by Tom Bendelow.  He may have visited later to do work, but he was no where near Wisconsin in 1898.


Sven

[Mark Provenzano]

Sven

I just looked at the Aetna Springs website and it dates the course from 1893. Given the remote location even today it is hard to imagine a course being built there. Maybe a farmer built a hole or two for recreation in his field. I am not all that familiar with the history of that area so there may well be a reason that I am not aware of. If someone has some background on the history of Aetna it would be interesting to read.

John

It's known that the resort site at Aetna was in use back in the 1870s. But verifying what golf was available when might be more difficult. http://napavalleyregister.com/news/local/a-grand-th-century-resort-to-be-reborn-in-pope/article_31be2f26-4fba-11e1-8c95-001871e3ce6c.html

This article mentions "built in 1890," but who knows exactly what?  http://napavalleyregister.com/news/local/aetna-springs-to-close/article_bd1fd81c-bf86-52bd-bb06-409ed25f01e2.html

[Tim Martin]

A friend of a friend is on a quest to play the oldest golf course in each of the lower 48 states, and has managed to get 38 of them so far, but the last ten have him stuck.

Ken,


After reading through this, the question that comes up for me is, does he want to play the oldest club or the oldest course?


I don't really know Greenwich CC, but I assume it has elements of an original course. For my taste, it would not fit my definition of "close to original" course. Fenwick and Shenny would be better fits in Connecticut.


Maybe he will have to start over


Just curious, can you post his courses so far? Thanks

Mike-Although Shennny still has a fair amount of Ross it is not close to original. Due to a land swap with Pfizer in 1998 where they wanted to build additional parking three new holes were constructed by Brian Silva on the other side of Plant Street. Plenty of other changes as well over their storied history.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Ken,


In AZ, Phoenix CC(1920) is not the oldest in AZ. It appears that Turquoise Valley GC in Naco(Cochise County) near Bisbee  is the oldest continually operating course dating back to 1908. :

http://turquoisevalley.com/turquoise-valley-home.aspx

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-oldest-golf-course-in-Arizona

[Phil McDade]

I was under the impression that Tescumbia in Green Lake WI was our oldest...

Tuscumbia was reported in the early guides as having been laid out in 1898.  A 1900 article notes it as "one of" the oldest courses in the state.  There were courses built earlier, including Milwaukee CC's first course and Oconomowoc.


There's a fallacy out there that Tuscumbia was first laid out by Tom Bendelow.  He may have visited later to do work, but he was no where near Wisconsin in 1898.


Sven

RJ:


I've tried for several years to track down the oldest course/club in Wisconsin, and everything I see suggests it's Eagle Springs, dating from 1893. It used to be 18, cut back to nine during the war, but I believe it still has a few original holes, including the famous par 3 2nd Volcano hole, and it's still on the same land of the original course, which some older clubs (like Milwaukee CC) are not.


Next in line would be Milwaukee CC, founded in 1894 according to my research, but the club moved to its present location in the 1910s, I believe. Janesville CC dates to 1894, the club says, and I also think it contains some original holes, or at least routings of holes. I've never played it, but friends say one of the 9-hole loops is pretty quirky and befitting a pre-1900 course.


Lake Geneva CC, a great old James Foulis track that I'd love to see sometime, dates to 1895, and is said to run the oldest continuing match-play club tournament in the country. Tuscumbia promotes itself as the oldest course in the state, but I have its founding at 1896. Maple Bluff was playing rudimentary holes on its present site -- much changed over the years -- in 1899. I'm sure there are some other pre-1900 courses in the state, but those are the ones I know of.

[Sven Nilsen]

Ken,


In AZ, Phoenix CC(1920) is not the oldest in AZ. It appears that Turquoise Valley GC in Naco(Cochise County) near Bisbee  is the oldest continually operating course dating back to 1908. :

http://turquoisevalley.com/turquoise-valley-home.aspx

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-oldest-golf-course-in-Arizona

Steve:


Turquoise Valley (aka Warren District GC) moved from Bisbee to Naco in 1936.  The original course was closed down due to mining expansion and a new course was built under the WPA.


Sven

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Sven,


I guess TV is the "oldest operating course under the same name."  Thanks. I must have missed this:
http://www.golfarizona.com/departments/coursereviews/turquoise-valley.htm

[Joel_Stewart]

Old Del  Monte in Monterey, CA bills itself as the oldest course in continuous operation west of the Mississippi. Is that incorrect?

That's what I thought although the original San Francisco Golf Club which was located by the Presidio was established in 1885.

[Sven Nilsen]

Phil:


I'm curious where your information on Eagle Springs comes from.  My understanding is that the resort was started in 1893, but I find it highly unlikely that the golf course itself was built at that time.  This would be real early for golf in the midwest, where the sport was just finding its legs.


I can find no mention of the course in any early reporting, including all of the various guides.  If you have anything discussing the course from back in the day, I'd be interested in seeing it.


In addition, the resort's own website notes that the course was completely reworked in the 1920's, and notes that the first two holes were designed by A. G. Spaulding.  A dubious claim at best, as Spaulding died in 1915.


Sven

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