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Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #500 on: June 02, 2018, 09:30:02 AM »
I think it will _probably_ get approved, because there is no doubt that local opinion is very strongly in favour, and it is the local council that will take the decision. Not Coul is all outsiders; check out some of the addresses on their petitions and objectors. But it is not cut and dried; such are the ways of democracy  :)


I don't see the project getting called in by the Scottish Executive. Partly because they got badly burned over Balmedie, and partly because Messrs Warnock and Keiser have made it clear throughout that they are not interested in a drawn-out planning battle. If the council votes no, they walk away.

Adam,

Like you I think it will get approved. I'm less convinced of the Scottish Ministers actions if it doesn't, or indeed if it does ! In theory they could call it in if the Council give approval which would be a fairly bold step. In my experience when Scottish Ministers "call in" an application it is usually because the council have granted consent for an application that goes against policy. Balmedie is the only exception to that that I know of (the Council turned down the application) although I dare say there have been other examples.

In the unlikely (IMO) event the council refuses consent then I don't think Mr Keiser and Mr Warnock will be that quick to pack their bags and head home. While they say they wouldn't be interested in getting into a long drawn out planning appeal (Trump said the same thing if I remember correctly, just saying  :D ) I've got to think that's a negotiating stance. To get to this stage they will have spent a fair amount of money, and I suspect they have received some generally supportive noises from Edinburgh.

Niall


You could of course be right, and only time will tell, but I honestly don't think so. Obviously they have spent money, but it's a drop in the ocean for Mr Keiser, and he's got plenty on his plate with Sand Valley and his other new project. Mr Warnock may have a different view, I don't know -- and he has certainly been the front man so far, inevitably I guess given that he lives here -- but whether he'd be prepared to go on alone if his partner pulled out must surely be open to question.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #501 on: June 02, 2018, 09:45:50 AM »
In the unlikely event that planning gets refused next week then it's very possible that the Scottish Government could call it in without prompting from Mr Keiser or Mr Warnock. If so, if you were them you would be as well at least just sitting on your hands and seeing where it goes. Although I agree that that speculation is likely to be academic.

Niall

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #502 on: June 03, 2018, 06:54:38 AM »
There is no doubt in my mind that approval of Coul Links would be good for the local economy, but I doubt that it will be significant, due to the lack of high end accommodation.  Much more time and money has been spent, over 35+ years, developing Skibo into a destination resort for the gliterati and wannabes and even it doesn't get filled up for most of the year.  Coul will be good for the Links Hotel (Mr. Warnock's place) and the Royal Golf Hotel, both of which need more paying customers.  I suspect that if CL goes through, the belt-notchers will be relegated to Grannie's Heilan Hame in Embo (the obligatory caravan site for great links courses).  It ain't bad.  I've spent a couple of nights there and many more evenings in the adjacent local music venuee bar (before my marriage!).  They used to have regular night time bus service between Dornoch and Embo, particularly in the summer and on the weekends.  Does it still exist?


Rich
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #503 on: June 03, 2018, 09:17:04 AM »
"They used to have regular night time bus service between Dornoch and Embo, particularly in the summer and on the weekends."

Rich -

The last I heard the Coul Links team's plan is to encourage their golfers to park in Dornoch. They intend to run a shuttle bus between the square in Dornoch and the Coul Links course.

Somehow I can't quite see the Coul Links golfers staying at Grannies. ;)   

DT
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 09:22:44 AM by David_Tepper »

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #504 on: June 03, 2018, 11:59:19 AM »

Rich,


the lack of accommodation is one of the things that the 'locals' need to address. Having said that I do not see the growth coming from the US golfer but rather the UK golfer so it needs decent B&B as well as self catering. Actually, good quality statics would fit the bill pretty well. On top of this the other towns need to improve dramatically. I always wonder what the good folk of Brora are thinking when I drive through as the place is not enticing which is a shame as it could be very attractive.


Have you not thought the reason why Skibo is not full might be because that is the business model ::)


Jon

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #505 on: June 03, 2018, 01:40:24 PM »
jon


The gazillionaire who owns Skibo now needn't care about chump change (i.e. a few million here or there)but he sold Sunderland FC recently, which tells me that he doesn't like losers.  His current strategy reminds me of what a local worthy said to me in Dornoch in the mid 80's when itwas mostly barren "I'm happy that we have so many overseas members now, but I'm very glad too that they pay their dues and cross the pond rarely."


Rich
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #506 on: June 03, 2018, 02:03:03 PM »
jon


The gazillionaire who owns Skibo now needn't care about chump change (i.e. a few million here or there)but he sold Sunderland FC recently, which tells me that he doesn't like losers.  His current strategy reminds me of what a local worthy said to me in Dornoch in the mid 80's when itwas mostly barren "I'm happy that we have so many overseas members now, but I'm very glad too that they pay their dues and cross the pond rarely."

Rich


Mr Short sold Sunderland after writing off £126 million of debt that the club owed him (because no purchaser would take on the club with the debt). Which tells me he's not as much of a gazillionaire as he was a few months ago  :)
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #507 on: June 03, 2018, 02:34:32 PM »
Interesting, Adam


Short made his gazillions by shorting (no pun intended) South Korean bonds in the Asian collapse in the late 90's and early naughties.  Hope for his sake he is no longer short (Short?) given what might happen (or not) in Singapore on June 12.


Rich
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #508 on: June 03, 2018, 03:03:56 PM »

Rich,


the lack of accommodation is one of the things that the 'locals' need to address. Having said that I do not see the growth coming from the US golfer but rather the UK golfer so it needs decent B&B as well as self catering. Actually, good quality statics would fit the bill pretty well. On top of this the other towns need to improve dramatically. I always wonder what the good folk of Brora are thinking when I drive through as the place is not enticing which is a shame as it could be very attractive.


Have you not thought the reason why Skibo is not full might be because that is the business model ::)


Jon


Have mentioned this twice before, but - from what I heard, a London-based real estate firm purchased the Dornoch Bay Hotel for a song speculating that Coul was going to happen.


http://old.christie.com/en/property/bay_dornoch_hotel_dornoch_highlands_for_sale_49009[/font]

Great bones in this place and a near perfect location.[/font]

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #509 on: June 03, 2018, 07:42:51 PM »
Hope you are right, Ian.  There are great bones and great history at the Dornoch Hotel.  In the 50's (even before Niall C. and I visited!) I am well informed that there were many Lords and Ladies who visited Dornoch via the spur railway and Dunrobin and then quick rides up to the Dornoch, the Royal Golf and the Burghfield from Rolls Royces  waiting for them at the local station.  Now that there was the day!
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #510 on: June 05, 2018, 01:53:24 AM »

jon


The gazillionaire who owns Skibo now needn't care about chump change (i.e. a few million here or there)but he sold Sunderland FC recently, which tells me that he doesn't like losers.  His current strategy reminds me of what a local worthy said to me in Dornoch in the mid 80's when itwas mostly barren "I'm happy that we have so many overseas members now, but I'm very glad too that they pay their dues and cross the pond rarely."


Rich


Rich,


possibly true but not very relevant.

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #511 on: June 05, 2018, 04:24:34 AM »
Planning committee meeting starts at 10.30 this morning.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #512 on: June 05, 2018, 04:48:59 AM »
For those that are interested I suspect you will be able to watch it online through the Council website.

Niall

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #513 on: June 05, 2018, 05:23:30 AM »
For those that are interested I suspect you will be able to watch it online through the Council website.

Niall


Yep.
There you go:
https://highland.public-i.tv/core/portal/webcast_interactive/354088
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #514 on: June 05, 2018, 05:25:57 AM »
Mr Warnock certainly seems to enjoy Dornoch. Saw him out dining at adjacent table on Sat evening and playing on Sunday.
Iíll post a few up to date pics of the new 7th soon.
F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #515 on: June 05, 2018, 07:16:18 AM »
Deferred for another two weeks approx pending the SEPA reply to the Not Coul objection.
The joys of our system!
F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #516 on: June 05, 2018, 07:29:07 AM »
Sounds like they bottled making a decision ?

Niall

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #517 on: June 05, 2018, 07:34:14 AM »
Not Coul have fired in a last-minute wobbly.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #518 on: June 05, 2018, 07:43:44 AM »
Last minute objection from Not Coul and the need to wait for SEPA response to it has required the council to defer a decision by about two weeks. However 7 members of the 15 member committee indicated in debate they would vote in favour. Story on http://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net in a few minutes
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #519 on: June 05, 2018, 07:44:00 AM »
FBD

I've just been on the planning website and read the Not Coul email of 21st May. They basically charge Dornoch Area CC of not following the proper procedures. Whatever the truth of that, given the email arrived over two weeks ago, you'd have thought that they would have dealt with the matter before taking it to committee.

As an aside, I note they also refute the claim of overwhelming local support which is interesting.

Niall

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #520 on: June 05, 2018, 07:44:39 AM »
Adam

Were you there or did you watch the webcast ?

Niall

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #521 on: June 05, 2018, 07:45:24 AM »
Webcast and subsequent conversation with Chris Haspell
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #523 on: June 05, 2018, 09:48:35 AM »
Aha, not the 21st May email as I'd thought. Is the last minute communication available anywhere to see ?

Niall

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #524 on: June 05, 2018, 10:59:12 AM »
I don't think so, unless Not Coul have published it. It ought to be on the Highland Council planning portal in principle, but I suspect they haven't got round to uploading it yet. Here's the page: https://wam.highland.gov.uk/wam/applicationDetails.do?keyVal=OX1OGYIHH0I00&activeTab=summary
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

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