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Ken Moum

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Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #300 on: August 26, 2017, 05:25:59 AM »
Thank you, gentlemen. The last few posts, especially Rich's are getting to the point of what I was trying to say.


Although I didn't get down into the middle on foot, I did get a decent look at a lot of the area from the disused railway and I stand by what I said initially. It doesn't look like the great links courses I've been on.  I said what Rich said, a fairly liberal use of heavy equipment would (could?) produce a great course.


But here's what's funny. I was prepared to come on here this morning and mostly retract my comments... because I played Brora yesterday. I've long said it's my favorite course in Scotland and standing on the first tee I remembered why.


To be honest, Coul does look a little bit like the links at Brora. It hasn't got the large flat-ish areas for fairways that Dornoch, St. Andrews, the Ayrshire coast, East Lothian, etc. have. The second of Scott's photos is what I was talking about.


Even Prestwick isn't one hump or bump after another.


Jon W. HAS walked the links and says he sees a golf course in the mold of Machrihanish Dunes (IIRC) but is that the "world class" course that everyone is talking about? And would that be what the guys in Tour buses coming from Castle Stuart, RDC, Nairn, Royal Troon, Turnberry, Muirfield and TOC be looking for"


I LOVE, LOVE, Brora. But it's got a lot of blind shots, despite what they've done to it to make it a lar 71, it's still a really good par 69.  And you know they felt the "had" to do that to attract more tourist money.


Proof of it was the couple that played behind us yesterday who are Canadian members of Troon Golf Club in Arizona.  They've played Royal Troon, Prestwick (which she didn't like), Western Gailes and Royal Dornoch. Played Brora on someone's (a caddy maybe) recommendation. Playing Castle Stuart today.


To be fair, though, they like "real" links golf and are headed south to play Crail and Lundin.


K
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #301 on: August 26, 2017, 05:54:35 AM »
So, if give permission to do so, why should it matter if heavy machinery is used to create what the archie believes to be a better course?  It seems to me that if the land shown in pix is to be used, it must be shaped for the intended purpose. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2023: Cardigan, St David's City, Panmure, Kinghorn, Harrogate, Hinckley, Robin Hood, Sandiway & Ladybank

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #302 on: August 26, 2017, 04:02:00 PM »
So, if give permission to do so, why should it matter if heavy machinery is used to create what the archie believes to be a better course?  It seems to me that if the land shown in pix is to be used, it must be shaped for the intended purpose. 

Ciao


Because it's been suggested that this team won't do that....



Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #303 on: August 26, 2017, 05:10:55 PM »

Ken,


Brora has two problems. One is it is too far north for easy access and secondly it does not have enough publicity exposure.


I have a question for you. Do you really believe that they should create another 'same old same old' course at Coul Links?


I would like to see the developer have the courage to do something innovative like at Bandon which was pilloried at the beginning for been the wrong concept in the wrong location.


Jon

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #304 on: August 27, 2017, 04:29:15 PM »

Ken,


Brora has two problems. One is it is too far north for easy access and secondly it does not have enough publicity exposure.


Well, they can't move it, but it's only 17 miles from Royal Dornoch, so that seems like a pretty small obstacle. Exposure is another matter, unless someone writes "A Season in Brora," and then it would take time for the people who aren't currently going there to find out about the book.  (Hopefully I'll be done traveling before it does.)


I have a question for you. Do you really believe that they should create another 'same old same old' course at Coul Links?


I suppose the fact that I was one of the first posters on this thread and I selfishly said I hoped it never got built answers that question.  But if I had an actual voice I'd be less concerned about that happening than I would be about the possibility of building another Kingsbarns or Castle Course.

I my mind the most special thing about playing golf here is how utterly un-American the experience is. (FWIW, I'm currently in a B&B across A9 from Skelbo Forest)


On your urging, we played Wick today, and it is the epitome of what I'm talking about.  Despite there being staff in the bar, and collection of members around, we ended up putting our cash in an envelope that we stuffed in the honesty box.  The trolleys they had were a ridiculous collection of what appeared to be cast-offs from the members. And tee times? Well, who needs them?

And as I expected when we finished a little after 5 p.m. the clubhouse was dark.

The other end of "Scottish" golf is at the courses with tee sheets full of visitors. Where there's someone to greet you, a goody bag of stuff, etc., etc.  And as some here have said, that's all fine.  But I just can't see the need, and I sure as hell don't want to have to pay for it.

I would like to see the developer have the courage to do something innovative like at Bandon which was pilloried at the beginning for been the wrong concept in the wrong location.

Jon


I don't recall the negative reaction, probably because I wasn't paying attention. But I do recall what it cost to play there in the early years.  And I'm not going begrudge them for charging what the traffic will bear but it makes me a little sad that using price as a way to limit demand also means most of my friends will never be able to afford places like that.

Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #305 on: August 27, 2017, 05:28:30 PM »
Ken,


There is no question that a project of this magnitude will attract criticism and skepticism. It's only natural.
But there are two factors here that can perhaps be objectively debated: the GCA for Coul and the developer.


C/C's body of work speaks for itself globally. The most recent (public access) courses to look at: Sand Valley, Cabot Cliffs, Streamsong, Barnbougle/Lost Farm,  Pinehurst #2 restoration.


Fair to say that Coul may follow similar styles but I would guess that Bill Coore knows that it will be judged closely given its location. I would also guess that, unlike some of these other new links courses, Coul may offer: local and overseas memberships, discounted rates for locals, very low off-season rates, and a laid back understated feel that is a hallmark (no pun intended) of all Keiser projects.


Cheers,
Ian
« Last Edit: August 27, 2017, 05:42:49 PM by Ian Mackenzie »

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #306 on: August 27, 2017, 06:38:04 PM »
So, if give permission to do so, why should it matter if heavy machinery is used to create what the archie believes to be a better course?  It seems to me that if the land shown in pix is to be used, it must be shaped for the intended purpose. 

Ciao


Because it's been suggested that this team won't do that....

Sorry, I didn't realize that C&C don't intend to push some sand about. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2023: Cardigan, St David's City, Panmure, Kinghorn, Harrogate, Hinckley, Robin Hood, Sandiway & Ladybank

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #307 on: September 27, 2017, 09:11:48 AM »
« Last Edit: September 28, 2017, 05:36:47 PM by Howard Riefs »
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #308 on: September 27, 2017, 09:55:04 AM »
Update on Coul Links with phone interview of Bill Coore by Matt Ginella.


http://www.golfadvisor.com/articles/scotland-coul-links-keiser-coore-crenshaw-16561.htm#slide-article-67965


Bill Coore is cautiously optimistic and calls the Coul Links site, in context of all of C&C's 31 year history, "None more special than this one."


Oops....just saw Howard's post above. But I think his links may be broken.

« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 10:14:38 AM by Ian Mackenzie »

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #309 on: September 28, 2017, 11:47:33 AM »
The development team of the Coul Links project today has issued a 4-page press release (in PDF format) describing the project and their plans in some detail. Perhaps the best news it contains is the announcement that Chris Haspell has joined the team as the project manager. Chris has been the head greenskeeper at Castle Stuart since it opened and was a key figure in the building & development of the course. 

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #310 on: September 28, 2017, 01:16:12 PM »
Coul/Embo, somewhere for a look-see Buda 2018 time.....right to roam?
atb

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #311 on: September 28, 2017, 01:46:17 PM »
"Coul/Embo, somewhere for a look-see Buda 2018 time.....right to roam?"

Thomas D. -

If you read Ken Moum's recent posts on this thread, you will see that many of the locals do indeed roam across portions of the Coul Farm property. If you drive into "downtown Embo" and park at Grannie's Heilan Hame, you should be able to walk north on the beach on to the property.

http://www.parkdeanholidays.co.uk/scotland-holidays/grannies-heilan-hame/grannies-heilan-hame-holiday-park.htm

DT

Steve Salmen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #312 on: September 28, 2017, 02:35:13 PM »
David,


With respect to the caravan park, where would the south end of the golf course be located?


Steve

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #313 on: September 28, 2017, 02:41:42 PM »
Steve -

There is a link to a map of the proposed routing of the course (and the whole property) back a couple of pages. To save you the trouble of finding it, here it is again. ;)

http://www.coullinks.com/traffic.html

DT

Steve Salmen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #314 on: September 28, 2017, 03:39:17 PM »
Thank you, David

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #315 on: September 29, 2017, 04:06:49 AM »
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highlands/1332364/but-not-all-are-in-favour-of-the-development/


Coul Links: Why not all are in favour of the development
by JAMIE MCKENZIESeptember 29, 2017





In the past two years, many have protested against the idea of building of a new golf course at Coul Links.


Four conservation charities – Scottish Wildlife Trust, RSPB, Buglife and Plantlife – held public meetings in Dornoch earlier this year to highlight the ecological importance of the coastal habitat for wildlife at the Coul Links SSSI.


And not all local residents are in favour of the development, which has drawn petitions both for and against.


Not Coul campaign group member, John Duhigg, lives in Skelbo and overlooks the proposed site for the golf course.


In a letter yesterday to The Press and Journal, he stressed the area does not need another golf course as there are six existing on the 20 miles of coast from Brora to Tain, adding that economic activity in the area is beginning to increase due to other contributors such as the NC 500, hiking and cycling.


And Mr Duhigg said the site is one one of the – if not thee – most protected pieces of dune environment in the whole of Scotland, if not Europe and the world.


He added: “Why should this change just because a development group presents a plan and development money?”


He also queried the economic benefits the development would bring and whether a “part-time, high end American style links development” would draw more people to the area when Royal Dornoch is there already.




Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #316 on: September 29, 2017, 04:49:22 AM »

Mmmmm,


I am all for protecting SSSIs and I would hope that SNH & SEPA will ensure that the project does not damage or degrade the status of this site. However the statement from Mr. John Duhigg claiming that the Coul Links is 'most protected pieces of dune environment in the whole of Scotland, if not Europe and the world' smacks of over egging the case and does little to further the argument against.


Jon

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #317 on: September 29, 2017, 05:11:34 AM »

Mmmmm,


I am all for protecting SSSIs and I would hope that SNH & SEPA will ensure that the project does not damage or degrade the status of this site. However the statement from Mr. John Duhigg claiming that the Coul Links is 'most protected pieces of dune environment in the whole of Scotland, if not Europe and the world' smacks of over egging the case and does little to further the argument against.


Jon


Spot on. I'd have thought if you were against this development the best thing to do would be to highlight some of the laughable claims made by the developer and in doing so avoid entering into any hyperbole of your own.


From the developers perspective I'd have thought leading on the ecological benefits, if any, might be a better tack than playing simply to your potential customer base ie. US travelling golfers, unless of course you think that you already have planning in the bag. Unfortunately this current government have form for ignoring any planning issues and simply going with the famous name/money as the granting of planning to Trump at Balmedie or Judy Murray near Stirling shows.


Niall

David_Tepper

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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +0/-1
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #321 on: October 03, 2017, 03:39:37 PM »

Wow...nice photo credit "courtesy"...;-)


Did you give them the picture?

Bob Montle

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #322 on: October 03, 2017, 03:53:36 PM »

Ken,


Brora has two problems. One is it is too far north for easy access .....
Jon

I'm not sure I understand.  On my last trip I spent several days in Inverness and Brora made for an easy day trip.

Or were you meaning the Inverness area being far north from Glasgow/Edinburgh?
"If you're the swearing type, golf will give you plenty to swear about.  If you're the type to get down on yourself, you'll have ample opportunities to get depressed.  If you like to stop and smell the roses, here's your chance.  Golf never judges; it just brings out who you are."

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #323 on: October 03, 2017, 10:33:48 PM »

Ken,


Brora has two problems. One is it is too far north for easy access .....
Jon

I'm not sure I understand.  On my last trip I spent several days in Inverness and Brora made for an easy day trip.

Or were you meaning the Inverness area being far north from Glasgow/Edinburgh?


For the guys that are playing the "checklist," Dornoch seems like the end of the earth.


I have talked to groups of Americans about going to Brora when they are in Dornoch,a couple of times.  The reaction I got one time sums it up, I think. The guy said, "North of Dornoch" I didn't think there was anything north of Dornoch."
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Keiser's Coul Links Project (Embo/Dornoch)
« Reply #324 on: October 04, 2017, 03:43:00 AM »


Ken,


Brora has two problems. One is it is too far north for easy access .....
Jon

I'm not sure I understand.  On my last trip I spent several days in Inverness and Brora made for an easy day trip.

Or were you meaning the Inverness area being far north from Glasgow/Edinburgh?


Bob,


you might say both. I am always amazed that people on golfing holidays (mainly US visitors) are quite happy to do insane distances in a car dashing from one side of the land to the other notching up a long list of big names, paying stupidly high greenfees and yet will not go an extra 20 minutes to play a great course such as Brora (or Golspie, or Tain, or Fortrose, or Moray, or ........). Most are not like you or Ken who are interested in experiencing Scottish golf.


Jon

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