News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Michael Morandi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and The New 13th
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2023, 01:43:28 PM »
Supposing few will be able to go for it in 2, will the added length lead to a layup yardage where they can spin the approach, thereby making the hole a driver, 9 iron, gap wedge?  How silly would that be?  And how boring?

Max Prokopy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and The New 13th
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2023, 03:32:24 PM »
It's worth waiting a couple years to see how things play out but I like the idea in principle.  I expect the firmness of the course will play more of a role in the decision-making, which might be in keeping with original intentions.
 
I do hope they clear a wide enough corridor of vegetation so players have angle options off the tee.
Even if carrying the dogleg got longer, at least give someone like Bubba the ability to try it if he so desires. 

Pat Burke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and The New 13th
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2023, 06:03:02 PM »
As a kid
I remember guys like Faldo and  Nicklaus hitting amazing shots with long irons


5 woods


A Curtis hitting a 4 iron in


Seeing todays guys hitting more club will be great.


More will lay up for sure, but canít imagine it being too many for excitement

Greg Clark

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and The New 13th
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2023, 10:56:30 AM »
Was the old tee box kept?  If so, I wonder if the new tee is used only when there is a decent downwind breeze.

John Bouffard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and The New 13th
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2023, 12:06:18 PM »
Supposing few will be able to go for it in 2, will the added length lead to a layup yardage where they can spin the approach, thereby making the hole a driver, 9 iron, gap wedge?  How silly would that be?  And how boring?


I don't know....I don't really find it silly or boring. Pros loathe not being able to birdie a par 5, and so in general, seeing which ones have the patience to lay up when the second shot is too risky is very interesting I think.


I still think at least half the field will be able to go for the green in 2, but if it ends up being "few," as you suggest, I still think it's exciting. These guys can stop/spin their wedge from any distance, so I don't see all of them laying back to some full SW length...some will try to leave themselves very close probably.


And the short pitch is no bargain. If they didn't put the second shot in the right place and have a bad angle, getting the third shot close becomes much harder. There will be plenty of guys who will overplay it or spin it too much, some ending in the water, and then some underplaying it, ending up in the swale or the bunkers, where they all hate the next shot, particularly if the pin is in the front.


Remember it galls them to not make a birdie, and so, after having swallowed their pride to lay up, many will be tempted to play risky shots with their wedge, shots which are as fun to watch, IMO, as a towering mid iron aimed at the center of the green.

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and The New 13th
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2023, 08:59:12 PM »
Was the old tee box kept?  If so, I wonder if the new tee is used only when there is a decent downwind breeze.
No. They have two tee boxes: members and toonamint.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I ignore Rob and Tim.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and The New 13th
« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2023, 04:16:56 AM »
Supposing few will be able to go for it in 2, will the added length lead to a layup yardage where they can spin the approach, thereby making the hole a driver, 9 iron, gap wedge?  How silly would that be?  And how boring?
..I don't really find it silly or boring. Pros loathe not being able to birdie a par 5, and so in general, seeing which ones have the patience to lay up when the second shot is too risky is very interesting I think.
Well said.
There is a skill, a mental skill, to laying-up well.
There is also an ego/vanity/temptation element in going for a shot.
There is an invisible element within golf and it's played, to paraphrase Bobby Jones, in the 5.5" between the ears.
atb

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and The New 13th
« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2023, 12:36:18 PM »
What I can't get over is that over most of Masters history, players were agonizing over the decision about whether to lay up or hit a wood/long iron to the green.


Now they're saying that if it's a hybrid there's no way they'll go for it.


IMHO, they're lying, to themselves and us.


Next week someone is going to be standing in that fairway (or make that plural, because 15 is possible as well) and they'll think they need a birdie or eagle to win.  And they'll make a decision...which will be analyzed, and re-analyzed.


See Chip Beck, Zach Johnson and Curtis Strange, among others.
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Pat Burke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and The New 13th
« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2023, 05:09:10 PM »
What I can't get over is that over most of Masters history, players were agonizing over the decision about whether to lay up or hit a wood/long iron to the green.


Now they're saying that if it's a hybrid there's no way they'll go for it.


IMHO, they're lying, to themselves and us.


Next week someone is going to be standing in that fairway (or make that plural, because 15 is possible as well) and they'll think they need a birdie or eagle to win.  And they'll make a decision...which will be analyzed, and re-analyzed.


See Chip Beck, Zach Johnson and Curtis Strange, among others.


Seriously going to be interesting to see guys deciding on hitting mid irons up to hybrids off that side hill lie.


And if they are able to pull it off with the forgiveness in the equipment these days (or not)


There were some epic long irons in The history and some epic misses

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and The New 13th
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2023, 07:37:50 PM »

Seriously going to be interesting to see guys deciding on hitting mid irons up to hybrids off that side hill lie.


And if they are able to pull it off with the forgiveness in the equipment these days (or not)


There were some epic long irons in The history and some epic misses


Epic...and that's exactly what I'd love to see.


The fact that Sarazen's 4 wood was almost certainly 20* (now a 7 wood), and 60s 1 irons were about the same (now a 4 iron) doesn't make today's decisions less epic.


FWIW,  at one point I owned 4 or 5 classic one irons and a couple of them had more loft than my PXG 0211 5 iron.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2023, 10:59:00 PM by Ken Moum »
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Michael Morandi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and The New 13th
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2023, 08:43:31 PM »
Supposing few will be able to go for it in 2, will the added length lead to a layup yardage where they can spin the approach, thereby making the hole a driver, 9 iron, gap wedge?  How silly would that be?  And how boring?


I don't know....I don't really find it silly or boring. Pros loathe not being able to birdie a par 5, and so in general, seeing which ones have the patience to lay up when the second shot is too risky is very interesting I think.


I still think at least half the field will be able to go for the green in 2, but if it ends up being "few," as you suggest, I still think it's exciting. These guys can stop/spin their wedge from any distance, so I don't see all of them laying back to some full SW length...some will try to leave themselves very close probably.


And the short pitch is no bargain. If they didn't put the second shot in the right place and have a bad angle, getting the third shot close becomes much harder. There will be plenty of guys who will overplay it or spin it too much, some ending in the water, and then some underplaying it, ending up in the swale or the bunkers, where they all hate the next shot, particularly if the pin is in the front.


Remember it galls them to not make a birdie, and so, after having swallowed their pride to lay up, many will be tempted to play risky shots with their wedge, shots which are as fun to watch, IMO, as a towering mid iron aimed at the center of the green.
[/quote


I get your point and it is a good one but I think if it becomes a 3 shot hole, the drive and the layup will not be as compelling as before.

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and The New 13th
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2023, 10:56:38 AM »
Maybe now they can get rid of that hard edge and collection area left of the green Nicklaus added in the 80s.  :)

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back