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Mike Hendren

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The Par Three Tenth
« on: June 19, 2003, 07:49:44 AM »
The "Best Set of Par Threes" thread prompted this question: Was it fairly common for the Golden Age architects to design a short tenth hole in their routings, and if so, why?

Right off the top of my head, the 10th at Ross' Beverly, Memphis CC and Cherokee CC are one-shotters, and I believe the 10th at his NLE Richland CC in Nashville was as well.  

Any thoughts?

Mike
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Chris_Clouser

Re: The Par Three Tenth
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2003, 07:54:41 AM »
You also have the 10th at Winged Foot West.

Also the 10th at Prairie Dunes, albeit that was after Press came in and added nine holes, but this was probably going to be the 10th hole in the original plans by Perry Maxwell.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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SPDB

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Re: The Par Three Tenth
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2003, 07:56:53 AM »
what about the Devil's A*shole?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Scott_Burroughs

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Re: The Par Three Tenth
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2003, 07:59:05 AM »
Speaking of the D.A. (at left)....

Also Rolling Green's monster 243-yard uphill 10th.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:06 PM by -1 »
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Bob_Huntley

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Re: The Par Three Tenth
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2003, 08:00:40 AM »
In my humble opinion the Raynor/MacKenzie/Hunter 10th hole at MPCC's Dunes Course is without parallel.

I refer to Ran's comments in Courses by Country together with a stunning photograph.

"10th hole, 165 yards; The tee is perched on top of a sand dune. Below is the green with the Pacific beyond. To your right is Spanish Bay. To your left is the stunning coastline as it heads toward Cypress Point.The hole is simple enough except for that other dimension: the wind, which plays havoc with the best laid plans. Placing his Short hole on the windest spot on the course was a shrewd move by Raynor:  few Americans can properly control their ball flight, and this hole ruthlessly exposes that flaw."

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Scott_Burroughs

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Re: The Par Three Tenth
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2003, 08:07:39 AM »
Of course, Bob, how could I forget?  Hard to forget my flush 8-iron into the wind flying the green.  Never thought I could hit it past mid green in those conditions and at that length.

The view, though, is awesome.  Even with the surfers changing into wetsuits by the road.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Bob_Farrell

Re: The Par Three Tenth
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2003, 08:24:02 AM »
Not sure how it was planned in the original routing, but at my club, Spring Brook in Morristown NJ, we end the front nine with a 173-199 yard par 3, then begin the back with a 166-183 par 3, and then a 180-209 par 3.

Lots of matches turn at these three.

BF
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Evan Fleisher

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Re: The Par Three Tenth
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2003, 09:05:35 AM »
Here are a couple of shots of the 10th at my home course (Dubuque Golf & Country Club)...it plays about 160 yards from the back tee and 140 from the whites.  Prevailing wind is behind you, long is dead, and short/left is no bargain either with a steep faced bunker and heavy rough.  Green is severely canted left to right and back to front.  The hole plays more downhill than the picture depicts, making club selection a bit iffy at times.

Fun little hole!



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:06 PM by -1 »
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Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 12.2. Have 24 & 21 year old girls and wife of 27 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

Michael Dugger

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Re: The Par Three Tenth
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2003, 09:19:18 AM »
10th at Bel-Air is a par three.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tom_Doak

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Re: The Par Three Tenth
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2003, 10:59:35 AM »
I don't think the Golden Age architects thought about the tenth hole as being special at all.  They did not imagine games starting at the tenth, or for that matter Nassaus; they were only thinking about match play, and in match play the tenth is just another hole.  So, you get your fair share of tenth hole par-3's, not more or less than you would expect at random.

Ten at Pacific Dunes is a par 3, of course, but no one is going to be starting the round there.  However, we did make the tenth at Texas Tech a par 3, and it's going to be a very difficult one -- an Eden-type hole playing straight downwind.  If they start their college event off two tees, that will be a rude introduction to the course.

P.S.  I'll be in Lubbock in about ten days ... with my camera if the conditions are favorable.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Kevin_Reilly

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Re: The Par Three Tenth
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2003, 11:05:49 AM »
10th at the remodeled Ocean Cse at Olympic is a par 3.  Fits the available land at that end of the property.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Dan Kelly

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Re: The Par Three Tenth
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2003, 11:16:27 AM »

Quote
I don't think the Golden Age architects thought about the tenth hole as being special at all.  They did not imagine games starting at the tenth, or for that matter Nassaus; they were only thinking about match play, and in match play the tenth is just another hole.  So, you get your fair share of tenth hole par-3's, not more or less than you would expect at random.

Pure musing, with no factual basis:

Did tied matches always proceed back to No. 1? Is it possible that some of those old archies thought of the 10th as a tie-breaking hole for match play -- witnessable from the clubhouse?

==========

The 10th at Minneapolis Golf Club is a peak-through-valley-to-peak par-3, I believe.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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DTaylor18

Re: The Par Three Tenth
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2003, 11:25:21 AM »
The 10th hole at the Orchards in South Hadley, MA is a very difficult par 3.  It has ruined many a back nine.  There's a stream in front, so you have to carry it to the green, but the green is one of Ross' inverted saucers, so you have an even smaller target area, which you're hitting into with a long iron.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Andy_Lipschultz

Re: The Par Three Tenth
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2003, 11:37:01 AM »
What makes the 10th at Bel Air even harder, is that you tee off feet from the clubhouse/restaurant, where sidebets are being made among the observers as to where your tee ball is going to end up.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Dan Herrmann

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Re: The Par Three Tenth
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2003, 12:03:02 PM »
The 10th at Pine Valley (previously mentioned) is a short walk from the 9th green, and is nowhere near the clubhouse.  

Actually, I love the idea of a tough 10th hole - you should have seen the guys sigh after their teeshots on 10 missed the afformentioned devil's a**hole in last year's Philadephia Open.  A good par 3 10th, I think, sets up the back nine emotionally better than a 4 or 5.

Doesn't Pacific Dunes have a really nice Par 3 10th too?  If I remember right, it also has a great Par 3 11th.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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David Wigler

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Re: The Par Three Tenth
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2003, 12:26:05 PM »
Well said Andy.  The 10th at Bel Air is right there with the 1st at Cypress as among the most intimidating shots in all of golf.  Trying to focus while Jerry West and Dave Brubaker are debating whether you will skank it into the gunch or not is a unique experience.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Mike Benham

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Re: The Par Three Tenth
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2003, 12:34:34 PM »

Quote
10th at the remodeled Ocean Cse at Olympic is a par 3.  Fits the available land at that end of the property.

and a difficult hole to club properly as the green is angled.  The prevailing wind comes down the canyon right to left but on the tee, the golfer is shelter from the breeze ...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Mike Hendren

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Re: The Par Three Tenth
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2003, 02:02:17 PM »
Quote
What makes the 10th at Bel Air even harder, is that you tee off feet from the clubhouse/restaurant, where sidebets are being made among the observers as to where your tee ball is going to end up.

Andy,

This is what I was hinting at.  Particularly at Belle Meade and Memphis CC, the tenth tee is directly in front of the men's grill and plays straight away.  How about teeing off at the 10th at Memphis CC w/ Dr. Cary Middlecoff in the gallery?

My second thought was that this was perhaps some routing trick that prevented the 1st and 10th from being parallel and similar?

Regards,

Mike

Regards,

Mike
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:06 PM by -1 »
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Forrest Richardson

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Re: The Par Three Tenth
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2003, 08:58:16 PM »
I agree with Tom D. -- the 10th was not viewed as special by early golf architects, certainly the 10th was not to begin a round too often in their minds.

My routing research leads me to believe it was often a matter of proximity to roads. Clubhouses were often near roads and the room available for two finishers and two starters was limited. A par-3 often fit in a smaller area than a par-4 or par-5, which would demand a wide tee shot landing field.

A no-longer-exists course, The Valley Club (Phoenix) designed by David Gill, was an excellent par-3, 10th. I recall one of the greatest thrills was hearing the stories of holes-in-ones which happened there. The hole, being right outside the proshop, was arena to lots of tremendous celebration at these special times -- much more than if "buried" farther out in the course.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Ken_Boltz

Re: The Par Three Tenth
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2003, 09:13:01 PM »
Let us not forget the fabulous little 10th at Chicago Golf. Lovely little pond in front, and about 8 greens within the green. Magnificent.  ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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TEPaul

Re: The Par Three Tenth
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2003, 03:21:29 AM »
I certainly like the par 3 10th at RCD, Newcastle, N. Ireland. I guess they might have considered making a short par 4 in there up to the ridge line you drive over on #11 but I doubt that would have been half as interesting as the par 3 they made and then the totally blind drive over the ridge. The drive on #11 is about as blind as you can get on a golf hole and some might even feel it hard to get the ball up high enough on that tee shot. I calculate by the time you get to the 11th tee you've already had about 4-6 really blind shots on that golf course! Pretty neat really! RCD may have been at the end of that era when the blind shot in golf was actually considered a very prized architectural offering!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:06 PM by -1 »
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redanman

Re: The Par Three Tenth
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2003, 03:34:52 AM »
Par 3 Tenth holes are a lot less common than par 3 thirteenth holes in my experience.  They are particularily dangerous for those with  triskadecaphobia, of course.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul_Turner

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Re: The Par Three Tenth
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2003, 05:40:36 AM »
Mike

Quickly thinking of the golden age British and Irish courses, a par 3 10th seems quite rare.

I disagree with the comments that the 10th wasn't regarded as a starting point for matches.  Guys like Mack and Colt clearly wrote that, if possible, two loops were preferable for that very advantage (getting matches away on busy days).  So I'd have thought a par 3 was less likely.  If the course isn't in two loops then, yes, the 10th is just another hole.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Evan Fleisher

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Re: The Par Three Tenth
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2003, 05:42:23 AM »
Ken Boltz...

Good call on CGC, I forgot about that one!  On my one and only attempt at that little beauty of a hole, I pulled my tee shot right (I'm a mollydooker!), fluffed my chip shot into the rough, then holed out my next chip shot for a smooth par.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 12.2. Have 24 & 21 year old girls and wife of 27 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

woof

Re: The Par Three Tenth
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2003, 05:51:38 AM »
The 10th at Philadelphia Cricket is a par 3, very welcome after the difficult 9th.  The 10th also returns to the clubhouse instead of starting from the clubhouse, informally dividing the course into a front ten and a back eight.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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