News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


JJShanley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Grand Rapids Public Options?
« on: September 15, 2015, 10:59:21 AM »
I've an overnight midweek trip planned to Grand Rapids later this month, during which I'll have time for two rounds.  I plan on playing Mines and GVSU-Meadows.  Does this sound a good idea?

Chris DeToro

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Rapids Public Options?
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2015, 11:05:14 AM »
I definitely recommend The Mines.  It's fun, tough, and really reasonable.  If you have time, I'd make the 30-40 minute drive up to Pilgrims Run.  That would make a nice Devries double. 

Jason Way

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Rapids Public Options?
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2015, 11:15:17 AM »
I definitely recommend The Mines.  It's fun, tough, and really reasonable.  If you have time, I'd make the 30-40 minute drive up to Pilgrims Run.  That would make a nice Devries double.


+1
"Golf is a science, the study of a lifetime, in which you can exhaust yourself but never your subject." - David Forgan

JJShanley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Rapids Public Options?
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2015, 11:22:21 AM »
Thanks!  Now that you mention P-R-, I'm half-tempted to play all three.  Should I bother with GVSU?

BCowan

Re: Grand Rapids Public Options?
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2015, 12:12:22 PM »
DeVries trifecta, add diamond springs, 35 mins away.  Ur in craft beer nirvana too.

PPallotta

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Rapids Public Options?
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2015, 12:17:21 PM »
JJ - I'll add my vote for the Mines, which is still (and easily) the best architectural value I've ever played.  Fun and thoughtful design features/challenges abound at every turn, but all done quietly and simply and without seeming artifice. 
Peter

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Rapids Public Options?
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2015, 01:48:08 PM »
The Mines and Pilgrims Run. Both are located just off the highway. The Mines is 5 mins west of downtown off of I-96(near John Ball Zoo) and Pilgrims Run is 25-30 mins due north on 131 to 22mile road. Take 22mile to Newcosta and you're there.

Anyone know why The Mines is called, "The Mines?" Fun Fact of the day....
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Course & Grounds
Mountain Lake
Lake Wales, FL

Richard Hetzel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Rapids Public Options?
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2015, 02:23:21 PM »
The Mines and Pilgrims Run. Both are located just off the highway. The Mines is 5 mins west of downtown off of I-96(near John Ball Zoo) and Pilgrims Run is 25-30 mins due north on 131 to 22mile road. Take 22mile to Newcosta and you're there.

Anyone know why The Mines is called, "The Mines?" Fun Fact of the day....

Because it was built atop old gypsum mines?
Last Ten: 
Mid Carolina Club (SC), Crandon GC (FL), Streamsong Blue (FL), Columbus CC (OH), PB Dye GC (MD), Hotchkiss (CT), Copake CC (NY), Fenwick (CT), Yale (CT), Architects (NJ)
Top 5 this year:
1. Yale
2. Culver
3. Wilmington Municipal
4. Charleston Municipal
5. Streamsong Blue

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Rapids Public Options?
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2015, 02:33:59 PM »
The Mines and Pilgrims Run. Both are located just off the highway. The Mines is 5 mins west of downtown off of I-96(near John Ball Zoo) and Pilgrims Run is 25-30 mins due north on 131 to 22mile road. Take 22mile to Newcosta and you're there.

Anyone know why The Mines is called, "The Mines?" Fun Fact of the day....

Because it was built atop old gypsum mines?

Bingo! Actually toured the mines when I was in grade school for a field trip.
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Course & Grounds
Mountain Lake
Lake Wales, FL

JJShanley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Rapids Public Options?
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2015, 05:05:08 PM »
Thanks for the suggestions!  I'm still curious about GVSU.  Is it worth a drive from Notre Dame, Ind. at some point?

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Rapids Public Options?
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2015, 07:33:34 PM »
Nope. Too many better options in between.
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Course & Grounds
Mountain Lake
Lake Wales, FL

Chris DeToro

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Rapids Public Options?
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2015, 07:40:29 AM »
I've not heard anything great about GVSU, but there definitely seem to be some better options. 

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Rapids Public Options?
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2015, 08:50:18 AM »
Thanks for the suggestions!  I'm still curious about GVSU.  Is it worth a drive from Notre Dame, Ind. at some point?

Though I have not been there in years, Angels Crossing is south of GR that has a lot of fan fare here when it opened and Diamond Springs would be ANOTHER DeVries course to check out.
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Course & Grounds
Mountain Lake
Lake Wales, FL

Chris DeToro

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Rapids Public Options?
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2015, 09:19:49 AM »
Angel's Crossing is good, but that's more Kalamazoo than GR--it might actually be closer to South Bend though

JJShanley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Rapids Public Options?
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2015, 09:41:02 AM »
I played 15 holes at A-C- in June, before I got rained out.  (The course, already pretty wet, flooded that day.)


  I loved it.  I'm heading back for 36 holes on my birthday next week.  I plan on taking Papa Shanley there if/when he comes to visit next spring. 

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Rapids Public Options?
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2015, 10:51:02 AM »
Angel's Crossing is good, but that's more Kalamazoo than GR--it might actually be closer to South Bend though

Correct, but there was a comment about coming from Notre Dame.
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Course & Grounds
Mountain Lake
Lake Wales, FL

Jaeger Kovich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Rapids Public Options?
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2015, 01:56:21 PM »
Pretty soon you will have to add Gull Lake View to this list when the Renaissance boys are done!

JJShanley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Rapids Public Options?
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2016, 10:33:59 AM »

I eventually had the chance to visit Grand Rapids a few weeks back, playing Meadows, Mines, Kaufman, Pilgrim's Run, and Diamond Springs over three days.


Meadows was okay, but not particularly interesting.  I feel grateful that I played it before the rough grew in, as my playing partners said that it gets out of control during the summer.  Friendly enough people, which actually reflects Grand Rapids as a whole.


Mines was good fun, and I ended up playing with someone who now works with a former ND colleague!  The routing is a challenge, and I don't think you could walk it, but I'd go back.  It felt like three courses: 1-4 over the road; the Scrubland holes to the south; and and the remaining, more parkland-style holes on the north of the property.  I particularly enjoyed the par-3 8th, which reminds me of photographs I've seen of PVGC. 


Golf needs more places like Kaufman.  Sure they could thin out the trees in places on the back nine to improve the turf behind the greens, but I could play there every day while walking.  It seemed to have a culture of golf, which brought together older, trash-talking GR-ites, high-school players, and bros to name but three demographics I had the pleasure of encountering.  All seemed to coexist. 


Pilgrim's Run proves the idea that rather than rank courses, one should judge them on whether you'd go out immediately for a second round.  The weather prevented that, although I considered taking a hit and getting utterly soaked for the price of a second round.  I wonder about 18 as a suitable hole.  I don't think it provides much in the way of strategy, compared to other shorter par-4s I've played or seen.  You have an obvious reward for driving the green, with any other decent drive leaving in a half-shot, but I don't see it as a shot that someone would take on all that often.  Other than that, I found it great fun, and just the correct side of cerebral without lacking in fun. 


I played Diamond Springs my final day.  I didn't much discussion of the course from my searches, other than suggestions that folk play it.  If I hasn't seen much play from the Treehouse, I happily served as your guinea pig!  I found it minimalist (rustic, even) to say the least, but lacking in very little.  I loved the single cut presentation that sees the tees, while slightly elevated, run into the fairways.  It had received some significant rain the previous afternoon (see previous paragraph) but still played F&F, especially as the temperatures warmed up to the high-80s as the day went on. 


I had only two criticisms: (1) While I appreciated the two or three tee options available, I wondered whether a hybrid card would help golfers like myself who want to play a longer course than 6,100 yards, but for whom 6,800 yards is too long.  (I don't have the card to hand, but those sound about right.)  (2) I wonder whether 14, a par-3 over a ravine, actually makes the most of the terrain.  You don't see the ravine from the back tees, so I wonder if it would play better at a shorter yardage.  I didn't know about the carry until I realized I'd hit (an admittedly awful shot) into it short-right.  It does benefit from a *wild* green that might suit a short template hole, but I can imagine the fun of hitting a 4-iron into those contours and watching the ball does as gravity demands.


Those comments aside, I'd go back there given the opportunity.  Wide fairways promote fast play after a bad tee shot - the three balls I lost (6, 14, and 18) came as the result of swings that deserved their fate - but they don't give up easy pars unless you think your way around.  I particularly enjoyed 13, which has two bunkers guarding the dog-leg that you can either carry or avoid short and/or left.  I had sprayed the ball from the tee all day, but figured out my alignment on that tee.  I wasted it with a tugged 9-iron into the left greenside bunker which left a challenging (read, "fun") recovery which I didn't quite pull off.


I also met a great dog, possibly a Bernese Mountain, named Pebble in the pro-shop.  I'd go back for his sake, but also for a great day of golf. 


Thank you all for your suggestions since the start of this thread.  I'd love to hear your thoughts on these courses!

JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Rapids Public Options?
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2016, 11:08:53 AM »
My in-laws live in Grand Rapids and we'll be up there with the kids late July. I haven't played any golf around Grand Rapids (saved it for Traverse area) but this year I'm planning to get out once or twice. Default starting point is the Mines and Pilgrim's Run.

BCowan

Re: Grand Rapids Public Options?
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2016, 01:20:58 PM »
Diamond springs is closer to holland, but it's my favorite by far.  Pilgrims comes in 2nd.  Mines 3rd, cartballer track

JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Rapids Public Options?
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2016, 01:54:30 PM »
Is Pilgrims Run as narrow as it looks from the aerial? I see a lot of hallways through the trees. I'm 6'6" and rusty, so I hit the ball all over the lot. I don't want to go someplace where I'm going to lose 15 balls.

JJShanley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Rapids Public Options?
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2016, 01:58:07 PM »
Is Pilgrims Run as narrow as it looks from the aerial? I see a lot of hallways through the trees. I'm 6'6" and rusty, so I hit the ball all over the lot. I don't want to go someplace where I'm going to lose 15 balls.


I didn't lose a ball that morning.  It has plenty trees, for sure, but I had no problems when I went right off the tee.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Rapids Public Options?
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2016, 07:35:51 PM »
I suspect some here don't like it but further up the road is Tullymore. It is great fun.
Tom Williamsen
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

BCowan

Re: Grand Rapids Public Options?
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2016, 10:07:13 PM »

I eventually had the chance to visit Grand Rapids a few weeks back, playing Meadows, Mines, Kaufman, Pilgrim's Run, and Diamond Springs over three days.


Meadows was okay, but not particularly interesting.  I feel grateful that I played it before the rough grew in, as my playing partners said that it gets out of control during the summer.  Friendly enough people, which actually reflects Grand Rapids as a whole.


Mines was good fun, and I ended up playing with someone who now works with a former ND colleague!  The routing is a challenge, and I don't think you could walk it, but I'd go back.  It felt like three courses: 1-4 over the road; the Scrubland holes to the south; and and the remaining, more parkland-style holes on the north of the property.  I particularly enjoyed the par-3 8th, which reminds me of photographs I've seen of PVGC. 


Golf needs more places like Kaufman.  Sure they could thin out the trees in places on the back nine to improve the turf behind the greens, but I could play there every day while walking.  It seemed to have a culture of golf, which brought together older, trash-talking GR-ites, high-school players, and bros to name but three demographics I had the pleasure of encountering.  All seemed to coexist. 


Pilgrim's Run proves the idea that rather than rank courses, one should judge them on whether you'd go out immediately for a second round.  The weather prevented that, although I considered taking a hit and getting utterly soaked for the price of a second round.  I wonder about 18 as a suitable hole.  I don't think it provides much in the way of strategy, compared to other shorter par-4s I've played or seen.  You have an obvious reward for driving the green, with any other decent drive leaving in a half-shot, but I don't see it as a shot that someone would take on all that often.  Other than that, I found it great fun, and just the correct side of cerebral without lacking in fun. 


I played Diamond Springs my final day.  I didn't much discussion of the course from my searches, other than suggestions that folk play it.  If I hasn't seen much play from the Treehouse, I happily served as your guinea pig!  I found it minimalist (rustic, even) to say the least, but lacking in very little.  I loved the single cut presentation that sees the tees, while slightly elevated, run into the fairways.  It had received some significant rain the previous afternoon (see previous paragraph) but still played F&F, especially as the temperatures warmed up to the high-80s as the day went on. 


I had only two criticisms: (1) While I appreciated the two or three tee options available, I wondered whether a hybrid card would help golfers like myself who want to play a longer course than 6,100 yards, but for whom 6,800 yards is too long.  (I don't have the card to hand, but those sound about right.)  (2) I wonder whether 14, a par-3 over a ravine, actually makes the most of the terrain.  You don't see the ravine from the back tees, so I wonder if it would play better at a shorter yardage.  I didn't know about the carry until I realized I'd hit (an admittedly awful shot) into it short-right.  It does benefit from a *wild* green that might suit a short template hole, but I can imagine the fun of hitting a 4-iron into those contours and watching the ball does as gravity demands.


Those comments aside, I'd go back there given the opportunity.  Wide fairways promote fast play after a bad tee shot - the three balls I lost (6, 14, and 18) came as the result of swings that deserved their fate - but they don't give up easy pars unless you think your way around.  I particularly enjoyed 13, which has two bunkers guarding the dog-leg that you can either carry or avoid short and/or left.  I had sprayed the ball from the tee all day, but figured out my alignment on that tee.  I wasted it with a tugged 9-iron into the left greenside bunker which left a challenging (read, "fun") recovery which I didn't quite pull off.


I also met a great dog, possibly a Bernese Mountain, named Pebble in the pro-shop.  I'd go back for his sake, but also for a great day of golf. 


Thank you all for your suggestions since the start of this thread.  I'd love to hear your thoughts on these courses!

JJ,

   Thanks for the post.  I need to play Kaufman. Pilgrim's Run is on a great piece of land.  From all the accounts I have heard Mike DeVries came into the project late and designed the green complexes and might not of did the actual routing.  That aside some of the big issues I have are the double hazards on #3 (I think) it has trees overhanging forced carries.  Tree canopy's over greens and tree trunk bases 6 yards from putting surface.  There are some really great holes (Can't remember the #'s).  I'm indifferent on #18, It was our 36th hole of the day walking and I hit a terrible 2 iron off the tee and buddy of mine and I walked in.  The hole really caught my eye and I thought it was interesting as I looked it over walking in.  That is coming from a guy who hates ponds.  I defiantly would return, however i think given the land and the right initial ownership that it could of been very very special of a course. 

   Diamond Springs, That is interesting that you said it still played firm after rain.  I played it on Labor day last year and it was really soft.  We had hot weather and I presumed they had just dosed the fairways because the pro said they hadn't had rain.  I would love to see Diamond Springs with 007 Bent grass fairways.  I really disagree with your opinion about hybrid cards.  I think 4 sets of tee markers with more space between them is best.  If a course is watered properly (much less) and has any elevation changes throw the numbers out the window.  We have 5 and 6 sets of tee markers and spend too much time customizing golf.  The 13th green has too much slope for the speeds they run the greens when I played it, prob 10.  The green is built for 6 or 7 stimp.  The clubhouse at Diamond is small, yet they haven't used it 3 years.  They just sell turn sandwiches in the golf shop.  Golf needs 50 more Diamond Springs courses.  Great design, affordable, min. maint costs with no mow rough with fescue.  It is rather jaw dropping that GCAers haven't played this course considering the Archie is a fan favorite.  Only thing I can come up with is we have a lot of Maint whores on here.  I really enjoy the great use of speed slots at DS. 

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Rapids Public Options?
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2016, 07:19:47 AM »

I eventually had the chance to visit Grand Rapids a few weeks back, playing Meadows, Mines, Kaufman, Pilgrim's Run, and Diamond Springs over three days.


Meadows was okay, but not particularly interesting.  I feel grateful that I played it before the rough grew in, as my playing partners said that it gets out of control during the summer.  Friendly enough people, which actually reflects Grand Rapids as a whole.

I think that it should be noted that Mike Devries and Kris Shumaker are the team behind Pilgrims Run, Diamond Springs and The Mines. I don't think their appeal and uniqueness are by accident. I can remember meeting Kris at PR before it ever open with my father. My father also worked with Kris at DS. Kris is a stand up guy, with a very deep interest in architecture. He flies under the radar, but seems to have some level of success at each place he gets involved in.


Mines was good fun, and I ended up playing with someone who now works with a former ND colleague!  The routing is a challenge, and I don't think you could walk it, but I'd go back.  It felt like three courses: 1-4 over the road; the Scrubland holes to the south; and and the remaining, more parkland-style holes on the north of the property.  I particularly enjoyed the par-3 8th, which reminds me of photographs I've seen of PVGC. 


Golf needs more places like Kaufman.  Sure they could thin out the trees in places on the back nine to improve the turf behind the greens, but I could play there every day while walking.  It seemed to have a culture of golf, which brought together older, trash-talking GR-ites, high-school players, and bros to name but three demographics I had the pleasure of encountering.  All seemed to coexist. 


Pilgrim's Run proves the idea that rather than rank courses, one should judge them on whether you'd go out immediately for a second round.  The weather prevented that, although I considered taking a hit and getting utterly soaked for the price of a second round.  I wonder about 18 as a suitable hole.  I don't think it provides much in the way of strategy, compared to other shorter par-4s I've played or seen.  You have an obvious reward for driving the green, with any other decent drive leaving in a half-shot, but I don't see it as a shot that someone would take on all that often.  Other than that, I found it great fun, and just the correct side of cerebral without lacking in fun. 


I played Diamond Springs my final day.  I didn't much discussion of the course from my searches, other than suggestions that folk play it.  If I hasn't seen much play from the Treehouse, I happily served as your guinea pig!  I found it minimalist (rustic, even) to say the least, but lacking in very little.  I loved the single cut presentation that sees the tees, while slightly elevated, run into the fairways.  It had received some significant rain the previous afternoon (see previous paragraph) but still played F&F, especially as the temperatures warmed up to the high-80s as the day went on. 


I had only two criticisms: (1) While I appreciated the two or three tee options available, I wondered whether a hybrid card would help golfers like myself who want to play a longer course than 6,100 yards, but for whom 6,800 yards is too long.  (I don't have the card to hand, but those sound about right.)  (2) I wonder whether 14, a par-3 over a ravine, actually makes the most of the terrain.  You don't see the ravine from the back tees, so I wonder if it would play better at a shorter yardage.  I didn't know about the carry until I realized I'd hit (an admittedly awful shot) into it short-right.  It does benefit from a *wild* green that might suit a short template hole, but I can imagine the fun of hitting a 4-iron into those contours and watching the ball does as gravity demands.


Those comments aside, I'd go back there given the opportunity.  Wide fairways promote fast play after a bad tee shot - the three balls I lost (6, 14, and 18) came as the result of swings that deserved their fate - but they don't give up easy pars unless you think your way around.  I particularly enjoyed 13, which has two bunkers guarding the dog-leg that you can either carry or avoid short and/or left.  I had sprayed the ball from the tee all day, but figured out my alignment on that tee.  I wasted it with a tugged 9-iron into the left greenside bunker which left a challenging (read, "fun") recovery which I didn't quite pull off.


I also met a great dog, possibly a Bernese Mountain, named Pebble in the pro-shop.  I'd go back for his sake, but also for a great day of golf. 


Thank you all for your suggestions since the start of this thread.  I'd love to hear your thoughts on these courses!

JJ,

   Thanks for the post.  I need to play Kaufman. Pilgrim's Run is on a great piece of land.  From all the accounts I have heard Mike DeVries came into the project late and designed the green complexes and might not of did the actual routing.  That aside some of the big issues I have are the double hazards on #3 (I think) it has trees overhanging forced carries.  Tree canopy's over greens and tree trunk bases 6 yards from putting surface.  There are some really great holes (Can't remember the #'s).  I'm indifferent on #18, It was our 36th hole of the day walking and I hit a terrible 2 iron off the tee and buddy of mine and I walked in.  The hole really caught my eye and I thought it was interesting as I looked it over walking in.  That is coming from a guy who hates ponds.  I defiantly would return, however i think given the land and the right initial ownership that it could of been very very special of a course. 

   Diamond Springs, That is interesting that you said it still played firm after rain.  I played it on Labor day last year and it was really soft.  We had hot weather and I presumed they had just dosed the fairways because the pro said they hadn't had rain.  I would love to see Diamond Springs with 007 Bent grass fairways.  I really disagree with your opinion about hybrid cards.  I think 4 sets of tee markers with more space between them is best.  If a course is watered properly (much less) and has any elevation changes throw the numbers out the window.  We have 5 and 6 sets of tee markers and spend too much time customizing golf.  The 13th green has too much slope for the speeds they run the greens when I played it, prob 10.  The green is built for 6 or 7 stimp.  The clubhouse at Diamond is small, yet they haven't used it 3 years.  They just sell turn sandwiches in the golf shop.  Golf needs 50 more Diamond Springs courses.  Great design, affordable, min. maint costs with no mow rough with fescue.  It is rather jaw dropping that GCAers haven't played this course considering the Archie is a fan favorite.  Only thing I can come up with is we have a lot of Maint whores on here.  I really enjoy the great use of speed slots at DS.
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Course & Grounds
Mountain Lake
Lake Wales, FL

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back