[Patrick_Mucci]

I wonder the extent to which, at least at the private club level, the prevailing culture is one where the members regard the club as a status symbol more than just a place to relax and have a good time with friends and family.

Tim,

In my limited experience of 60+ years, very, very few members whom I've come in contact with, regard membership at their. Club as a status symbol.

Where did you get that notion from ?

The members who have the gumption to get on a Superintendent's case because the otherwise perfect greens are running at 11 on the Stimpmeter rather than 13 are probably the same ones who tell non-members at cocktail parties, "Yeah, the greens at [my home club] are like glass right now. Just perfect. Thirteen-plus!" whether it's true or not.


Again, what facts do you have that support the above claim ?


My sense is that there are certain clubs whose steering committees are more full of these kinds of dudes than others. And to arc back to Peter P.'s thesis, which Paul mentioned, they are also the kind of dudes who think their ideal is of a great golf experience when it's really more about a country garden walk than a round of golf.


Tim, I think most green committees are composed of concerned members of limited knowledge.   They mean well, but are misguided.

Pat, it seems like the guy complaining about the course to you is a member of one of those ego-first-golf-second clubs, and that the host of the outing is of the reverse sort.


Not at all.
He's just misguided.
He's been indoctrinated, brainwashed into thinking that ideal playing conditions are represented by a lush, monochromatic, green golf course.

He had no idea of the comparative playing benefits of F&F vs lush, green conditions.

I don't know of a golfer who doesn't want to hit it longer.

20 extra yards is more easielly gained by converting to F&F than iby taking more lessons.

When explaining the playing benefits you have to overcome decades of the closure to lush green on TV

And you gave to explain that golf isn't dart throwing, it requires thought and execution.

Given the time you can provide information that can convert the individual golfer to the benefits of F&F, but, extending the counter message to the masses is a far more difficult process.

Especially when so many watch the PGA Tour every week


.

[Philip Hensley]

this what we're up against.
 
The green, green grass?

I heard a local radio advertisement for Mid-Pines & Pine Needles this week, touting "two Emerald green Donald Ross" gems. 

[Pete_Pittock]

is it the Augusta syndrome or an extension of their lawn?

[Tim Gavrich]

Pat--

If they don't have to do with materiality or the seeking of possession of a status symbol, what are the main factors/values that separate a club membership that wants a lush, green, soft golf course from one that wants an ideally maintained course?

Why do some memberships want a course that has a more conventionally "beautiful" aesthetic presentation while others prioritize the playability and enjoyment of the course?

How do these differences shake out at country clubs vs. pure golf clubs?

Doesn't it stand to reason that the desire for superficial beauty rather than actual fun says something about the values of the people making the decisions, and the way they view their club?

I don't think it's radical or very avant-garde to suggest that the possession of status symbols is connected to an emphasis on aesthetics. A $250,000 Bentley probably drives about as well as (and certainly not 2.5 times better than) a $100,000 BMW 5-series, but people buy Bentleys in part because that "B" on the front of the car says something to passersby that the BMW logo doesn't. Their rarity and aesthetics makes Bentleys very "beautiful" to many onlookers. The row of them parked amongst the public buildings in London are a sight, certainly. It's not unreasonable to assert that a golf or country club membership can have a similar social function, and that that reality has an effect on the sub-optimal presentation of the golf courses at many clubs.

[Paul Gray]

Tim,


Great post. Spot on.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat--

If they don't have to do with materiality or the seeking of possession of a status symbol, what are the main factors/values that separate a club membership that wants a lush, green, soft golf course from one that wants an ideally maintained course?

Tim,
 
The culture of the club in terms of historical context.
 
The composition of the membership of the club in terms of "golfers"

Why do some memberships want a course that has a more conventionally "beautiful" aesthetic presentation while others prioritize the playability and enjoyment of the course?
 
See the above response

How do these differences shake out at country clubs vs. pure golf clubs?

I don't understand the use of the term "shake out".
What does that mean ?

Doesn't it stand to reason that the desire for superficial beauty rather than actual fun says something about the values of the people making the decisions, and the way they view their club?

You're using qualifiers to frame your question.
 
I've had plenty of fun on courses where roll is restricted.
I would have had more fun had roll not been restricted.
 
I've been on plenty of beautiful courses.
As to whether the beauty is superficial or not is in the eye of the beholder.
 
If the beholder/s watch the PGA Tour every week, lush, green conditions are the norm, the standard by which they judge the condition of a course, because that's what they see the best golfers in the world playing.
 
The only thing it tells you about the membership is that they've chosen to emulate that which they see on TV every week.

I don't think it's radical or very avant-garde to suggest that the possession of status symbols is connected to an emphasis on aesthetics. A $250,000 Bentley probably drives about as well as (and certainly not 2.5 times better than) a $100,000 BMW 5-series, but people buy Bentleys in part because that "B" on the front of the car says something to passersby that the BMW logo doesn't. Their rarity and aesthetics makes Bentleys very "beautiful" to many onlookers. The row of them parked amongst the public buildings in London are a sight, certainly.
 
It's not unreasonable to assert that a golf or country club membership can have a similar social function, and that that reality has an effect on the sub-optimal presentation of the golf courses at many clubs.
 
I don't know any members of private clubs that walk around waving their membership certificate.
 
I do however, see the drivers behind the wheel of luxury cars, so, they're easy to identify.
 
As to your premise, just the opposite is true.
The members of some iconic clubs like Pine Valley, Seminole, Winged Foot, CPC, NGLA, Shinnecock and others, prefer optimal playing conditions to soft, lush, green conditions.
 
Hence, like lush, green fairways, your premise is all wet.

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