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Bradley Anderson

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Re: The Venerable WALTON HEATH OLD COURSE 1-10
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2016, 12:31:08 PM »
Prior to playing 36 on Sunday, my only previous experience with Walton Heath had been an extensive walk around during a Study Tour in 2007. I loved the look of the place back then and that feeling only grew on me two days ago. Regards the land, it has that very rare mildly undulating, open common feel that almost all other heathlands have foregone (in that respect it felt a little like Copenhagen GC in Denmark). Most modern courses given the same land would be hideously shaped to try and spice up the drama. It is clear that Fowler had quite an individual style. Really it was pre-golden age, a bridge between the old school architects and the artistic crew that followed in the 20ís and 30ís. In other courses Iíve seen, Iíd questioned some of the sharp, micro-features and mounds that I was sure were only partially deliberate, a function of the time from when they were built. Here, I started to really love them as different and idiosyncratic. Fowler was a unique architect I think. The New course has surely undergone less change than almost any other pre-golden age / transition era course I know. It is completely lay of the land with greens that follow whatever tilt is there and heather topped bunkers that are trenched and mounded. It is excellent. But it does not have the variety of the Old course which I think in all senses can be described as great. Whilst it has undergone change, the ever so slightly more modern styling in many places blends in seamlessly and creates some of the best holes, the par four 5th and par three 11th among them. By ďmodernĒ I really mean golden age for there is nothing here that looks remotely like a course created since WW-II (even if there have been new holes added since that time). The Old uses the better topography, is more challenging in its placement of hazards and in all creates more memorable holes. Throughout the 36, the conditioning was immaculate with the fairways playing unbelievably firm and fast which Ė despite their general good width Ė resulted in many balls running through. This I also put down to a complete absence of any containment (which lest we forget is a regular occurrence on links land because of the dunes); to the extent that many fairways seemed to play as the most subtle and gentle of hogs-backs. Iíll let Sean continue on with his detailing and describe the course. For me I found it superb.


You have found words and expressions here that I have groped for for years. Great post Ally!

Bill_McBride

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Re: The Venerable WALTON HEATH OLD COURSE
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2016, 01:20:50 PM »
It was once a short par four with the tee on the other side of the road. They had to nix that tee because of health and safety concerns, so they moved the tee over the road and made it a long three. I think that's why it's such a funky hole. It's "supposed" to take a wedge and it's a hybrid, long iron or fairway wood.

Amazing how quickly I forgot about the 1st hole after I crossed the road.  What follows is good enough that the starter is a distant memory.


Those first par 4s are about as good as anything I've played in the UK. 


James Brown

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Re: The Venerable WALTON HEATH OLD COURSE
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2016, 09:50:51 PM »
Playing it for the first time in August.  Really looking forward to it.  Looks like a really natural setting.

Sean_A

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Re: The Venerable WALTON HEATH OLD COURSE
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2017, 01:15:40 PM »
Playing it for the first time in August.  Really looking forward to it.  Looks like a really natural setting.

James

How did you get on?

All...despite many game efforts, I have yet to catch WHO in glorious light.  However, I did update the tour..have a look.  What a course!

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,61415.msg1460548.html#msg1460548

Ciao
« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 05:08:41 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Max Sternberg

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Re: The Venerable WALTON HEATH OLD COURSE
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2017, 02:53:44 PM »
Had the fortune to play WHO late last month at the end of a quick trip to sample a few English courses. The heather was just starting to bloom into a wonderful purple and gave the course a framing I had never seen before. Unfortunately it was terrible light for photography and my game was getting weary at the end of the trip, but I would love to get back there.

One thing I noticed was that there were a few tee shots that appeared to be positioned so as to go up alternate fairways that were either out of use or on the New Course. Is this for a composite layout? Would love to see a routing for that.

James Brown

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Re: The Venerable WALTON HEATH OLD COURSE
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2017, 08:35:39 PM »
Playing it for the first time in August.  Really looking forward to it.  Looks like a really natural setting.

James

How did you get on?

All...despite many game efforts, I have yet to catch WHO in a glorious light.  However, I did update the tour..have a look.  What a course!

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,61415.msg1460548.html#msg1460548

Ciao


It was amazing.  One of the best walks in golf.  The whole of Walton Heath just oozes golfyness.  My caddie was awesome and knew all the history. 

Michael Felton

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Re: The Venerable WALTON HEATH OLD COURSE
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2017, 07:49:16 AM »
Had the fortune to play WHO late last month at the end of a quick trip to sample a few English courses. The heather was just starting to bloom into a wonderful purple and gave the course a framing I had never seen before. Unfortunately it was terrible light for photography and my game was getting weary at the end of the trip, but I would love to get back there.

One thing I noticed was that there were a few tee shots that appeared to be positioned so as to go up alternate fairways that were either out of use or on the New Course. Is this for a composite layout? Would love to see a routing for that.


I know this post is a little old, but here is a layout of the combined course:





It goes as follows:


1 - 2 Old par 4
2 - 4 Old par 5
3 - 5 Old par 4
4 - 6 Old par 4
5 - 7 Old par 3
6 - 8 Old par 5
7 - 9 Old par 4
8 - 10 Old par 4
9 - 11 Old par 3
10 - 12 Old par 4
11 - 13 Old par 5
12 - 12 New par 4
13 - 13 New par 4
14 - 14 Old par 4
15 - 15 Old par 4
16 - 16 Old par 4
17 - 17 Old par 3
18 - 18 New par 4

Adam Lawrence

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Re: The Venerable WALTON HEATH OLD COURSE
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2017, 08:47:30 AM »
Michael -- is that the routing that will be used when the Tour comes to town next summer?
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Michael Felton

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Re: The Venerable WALTON HEATH OLD COURSE
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2017, 08:02:18 PM »
Michael -- is that the routing that will be used when the Tour comes to town next summer?


Iím afraid I donít know the answer to that. I would imagine it will be, but Iím not sure. They havenít used it for any of the recent tournaments, but thatís because theyíve been using both courses. They used the combined course for the senior open in 2011.

Sean_A

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Re: The Venerable WALTON HEATH OLD COURSE
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2018, 05:16:32 AM »
Michael -- is that the routing that will be used when the Tour comes to town next summer?

Iím afraid I donít know the answer to that. I would imagine it will be, but Iím not sure. They havenít used it for any of the recent tournaments, but thatís because theyíve been using both courses. They used the combined course for the senior open in 2011.

Michael

Have you been able to find out if the combined routing will be used this summer?

All...the 2017-18 Winter Tour continued on a glorious day.  See the updated tour.
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,61415.msg1460548.html#msg1460548

Previous Stops

RAC
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,65366.0.html

St Georges Hill
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,36130.0.html

Huntercombe
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,32228.msg633321.html#msg633321

Worcester
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49998.msg1348691.html#msg1348691

Planned stops: Deal & Princes

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Bob Montle

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Re: The Venerable WALTON HEATH OLD COURSE: 2017-18 Winter Tour
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2018, 10:48:39 AM »
It was often said that no one can be as wise as James Braid looked.
[/url

Doesn't he look like Moonlight Graham?
"If you're the swearing type, golf will give you plenty to swear about.  If you're the type to get down on yourself, you'll have ample opportunities to get depressed.  If you like to stop and smell the roses, here's your chance.  Golf never judges; it just brings out who you are."

Sean_A

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Re: The Venerable WALTON HEATH OLD COURSE: 2017-18 Winter Tour
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2018, 10:28:11 AM »
It was often said that no one can be as wise as James Braid looked.
[/url

Doesn't he look like Moonlight Graham?

I assume you mean Burt Lancaster  8) , but I know what you mean. 

I had a good walk around Walton Heath again recently and my admiration for The Old continues to grow. 

I wonder if any of this year's 14 qualifiers at Walton Heath will pull off the Michael Campbell?  Was that really in 2005?


See the updated tour.
www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,61415.0.html

Ciao
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 10:40:52 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: The Venerable WALTON HEATH OLD COURSE
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2018, 10:13:05 AM »
I see the course is on telly this weekend for the British Masters.


Love Walton Heath

BHoover

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Re: The Venerable WALTON HEATH OLD COURSE
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2018, 10:16:11 AM »
I see the course is on telly this weekend for the British Masters.

Love Walton Heath
The course looks spectacular on television. I plan to spend the weekend watching as much as possible in the morning.

John Mayhugh

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Re: The Venerable WALTON HEATH OLD COURSE 1-10
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2018, 12:15:50 PM »
Regards the land, it has that very rare mildly undulating, open common feel that almost all other heathlands have foregone (in that respect it felt a little like Copenhagen GC in Denmark). Most modern courses given the same land would be hideously shaped to try and spice up the drama.
 

Enjoying looking at this thread again, and wanted to praise Ally's observation.

Sean_A

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Re: The Venerable WALTON HEATH OLD COURSE
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2018, 12:49:53 PM »
Does anybody know the composite course being used this week?


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Michael Whitaker

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Re: The Venerable WALTON HEATH OLD COURSE
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2018, 04:54:27 PM »
Does anybody know the composite course being used this week?

Ciao
Sky Sports says: ďThis week they are playing 16 holes of the Old Course and two from the New Course.Ē But, they donít say which two from the New. You know #1 from the old is out... which other?
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 04:56:56 PM by Michael Whitaker »
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Brian Finn

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Re: The Venerable WALTON HEATH OLD COURSE
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2018, 07:35:52 PM »
Does anybody know the composite course being used this week?

Ciao
Sky Sports says: ďThis week they are playing 16 holes of the Old Course and two from the New Course.Ē But, they donít say which two from the New. You know #1 from the old is out... which other?
The 1st and 3rd on the Old Course are not used.  I'm pretty sure it's the 12th and 13th on the New that are used, which is in line with Michael Felton's post from last December.


https://www.britishmastersgolf.com/event-information/
New for '23:  Cheraw SP, Grandfather, Clyne, Tenby, Pennard, Langland Bay, Southerndown, Pyle & Kenfig, Royal Porthcawl, Ashburnham, Rolls of Monmouth, Old Barnwell...
New for '24: Monifieth (2), Montrose (2), Panmure, Carnoustie (3), Scotscraig, Kingsbarns, Elie, Dumbarnie, Lundin...

Sean_A

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Re: The Venerable WALTON HEATH OLD COURSE
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2018, 04:18:55 AM »
Does anybody know the composite course being used this week?

Ciao
Sky Sports says: ďThis week they are playing 16 holes of the Old Course and two from the New Course.Ē But, they donít say which two from the New. You know #1 from the old is out... which other?
The 1st and 3rd on the Old Course are not used.  I'm pretty sure it's the 12th and 13th on the New that are used, which is in line with Michael Felton's post from last December.

https://www.britishmastersgolf.com/event-information/

Thanks.  I am very surprised the scores weren't better.  I saw very few putts made which on fairly flat greens is remarkable.

Ciao
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 01:01:21 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Sam Krume

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Re: The Venerable WALTON HEATH OLD COURSE
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2018, 07:49:55 AM »
Sean
After venturing up there I would have to say the course and greens looked absolutely mint, even in Sundays atrocious conditions the greens were rolling pure. I heard on the TV coverage Ewen Murray talking about the subtle slopes on the greens and a number of the on course commentators saying how hard they were to read. Also heard a number of players commenting that they were the best greens that they had putted on in Europe all year....a big congrats to the green keeping crew up there.

Michael Felton

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Re: The Venerable WALTON HEATH OLD COURSE
« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2018, 03:36:30 PM »
Does anybody know the composite course being used this week?

Ciao
Sky Sports says: ďThis week they are playing 16 holes of the Old Course and two from the New Course.Ē But, they donít say which two from the New. You know #1 from the old is out... which other?
The 1st and 3rd on the Old Course are not used.  I'm pretty sure it's the 12th and 13th on the New that are used, which is in line with Michael Felton's post from last December.


https://www.britishmastersgolf.com/event-information/


That is correct. Skip the 1st, play the 2nd, skip the 3rd, play the 4th as a par five, then play through 13 Old, skip through the woods and play 12 and 13 on the New and then 14 on on the Old. The Ryder Cup course also played 18 on the New, but they used 18 on the Old for this event. They redid 18 not that long ago and I think they wanted to showcase it. I was watching on the tv. It was great to see the course stand up as well as it did.

Thomas Dai

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Re: The Venerable WALTON HEATH OLD COURSE
« Reply #46 on: October 24, 2018, 02:55:56 PM »
18th being reconstructed - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IjgqSPUbeVY
Atb

Sean_A

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Re: The Venerable WALTON HEATH OLD COURSE
« Reply #47 on: October 25, 2018, 04:27:47 AM »
Sean
After venturing up there I would have to say the course and greens looked absolutely mint, even in Sundays atrocious conditions the greens were rolling pure. I heard on the TV coverage Ewen Murray talking about the subtle slopes on the greens and a number of the on course commentators saying how hard they were to read. Also heard a number of players commenting that they were the best greens that they had putted on in Europe all year....a big congrats to the green keeping crew up there.

So what does this say about the current trend of crazy greens and speeds of 12+?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Mark Chaplin

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Re: The Venerable WALTON HEATH OLD COURSE
« Reply #48 on: October 25, 2018, 06:16:36 PM »
I also heard players saying they were some of the best greens theyíd played all year, yet I received a newsletter today from another source who didnít play saying they were sponges and the sward a weed.
Cave Nil Vino

Duncan Cheslett

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Re: The Venerable WALTON HEATH OLD COURSE
« Reply #49 on: October 26, 2018, 04:51:28 AM »
I also heard players saying they were some of the best greens theyíd played all year, yet I received a newsletter today from another source who didnít play saying they were sponges and the sward a weed.


What?


Tour pros don't appreciate that "Joy to be Alive" feeling?


 ;D

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