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Bill_McBride

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Re: National Golf Links of America (NGLA) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #50 on: May 30, 2015, 10:40:21 AM »
The windmill I found interesting living in The Netherlands as it's a very Dutch windmill. I was also quite interested to see the original Dutch Delf's Blue tiles in the clubhouse. Those were the blue and white tiles they had on the wall in the main room where all the books are. What I didn't quite understand was what the link between The Netherlands/Dutch and the club are. I'm not certain if it only stems back to all the Dutch that immigrated to the US and perhaps some original members were of Dutch ancestry or perhaps even there is a tie in with the windmill and the gentleman that suggested it needed to be built.

Anyone know this by chance? Might sound silly to ask but you gentlemen are so full of historical and interesting trivial information that I wouldn't put it past perhaps many of you to know the answers to the above.

Thanks

David:

My guess is the windmill at NGLA was based on the other working windmills that dotted the landscape on the eastern end of Long Island.  

If you want a bit of the back story, there was a 1912 piece in Southampton Magazine that covered their history (found here - http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=nyp.33433062536051;view=1up;seq=60).

Sven                                 

The story I heard is that one of the members complained about the ugly water tower and suggested a windmill to hide the tank.  Great idea.  Apparently CBM had the work done and put the bill for it in the member's locker!

If that story's not true it ought to be.  
« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 07:38:31 PM by Bill_McBride »

Jon Cavalier

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Re: National Golf Links of America (NGLA) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #51 on: May 30, 2015, 12:14:21 PM »
The Eden hole disappointed me because the Strath bunker was well to the right of the St Andrews location where it is a nightmare waiting to happen.  At NGLA there is a good sized opening between Hill and Strath, removing some of the terror.  

Of course this in no way detracts from the joy of a day at NGLA.  I can think of no finer sight in golf that the view from the tee at 17!

Bill--

You need to play the Eden from the tee adjacent to the 12th green and you'll find the bunker placement not only perfect, but frightening with a couple more clubs in your hand.  

I think Pat Mucci has long advocated that tee as well.  We played the normal tee twice the day I played there with Tiger Bernhardt.   Does anyone have a photo of the hole from that tee?

I think this is more or less the angle you're looking for (although a bit closer to the hole):

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Bryan Izatt

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Re: National Golf Links of America (NGLA) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #52 on: May 30, 2015, 12:37:03 PM »

....................

The windmill I found interesting living in The Netherlands as it's a very Dutch windmill. I was also quite interested to see the original Dutch Delf's Blue tiles in the clubhouse. Those were the blue and white tiles they had on the wall in the main room where all the books are. What I didn't quite understand was what the link between The Netherlands/Dutch and the club are. I'm not certain if it only stems back to all the Dutch that immigrated to the US and perhaps some original members were of Dutch ancestry or perhaps even there is a tie in with the windmill and the gentleman that suggested it needed to be built.

.....................

Thanks

David,

Don't know about the windmill, but the Delft tiles were part of a golf memorabilia collection that Macdonald bought from Dr Purves, the founder of Royal St. Georges.  The tiles apparently depict various ice related activities.  You could read more in the Walker Cup program if you wanted.


Frank Giordano

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Re: National Golf Links of America (NGLA) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #53 on: May 30, 2015, 12:59:42 PM »
Jon,

Those Jesuits taught you (as well as most of us who came under their tutelage) how to write and to see!  Marvelous photo tour, inspiring for those of us who've not played NGLA.  I'm starting a panoramic painting of the #17 hole, Peconic, shortly.


Patrick Kiser

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Re: National Golf Links of America (NGLA) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #54 on: May 31, 2015, 02:07:58 PM »
Jon,

Another excellent review.  Thanks for posting and sharing.
“One natural hazard, however, which is more
or less of a nuisance, is water. Water hazards
absolutely prohibit the recovery shot, perhaps
the best shot in the game.” —William Flynn, golf
course architect

David Davis

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Re: National Golf Links of America (NGLA) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #55 on: May 31, 2015, 03:16:39 PM »
Sven,

Thanks for the impressive windmill history of Long Island. I didn't realize there were many of them. I've only spent two weeks there before and that was last October but I can't remember seeing many windmills. I note the article you posted said around the turn of the century there were many. I think they are hard to maintain. Even here in The Netherlands they are.

I won't go into it further as I don't want to threadjack on this amazing tribute to NGLA Jon put together.

Brian,

The sport depicted in the tiles is something the Dutch claim was the original golf and it's called Kolf.

Whether it's true or not there are early photos of the Dutch playing this sport before the invention of golf. Or so they argue. There are also a history of ties between Scotland and The Netherlands they use to back up their invention ;-)

Thanks for the note on the tiles.
Sharing the greatest experiences in golf.

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www.lockharttravelclub.com

Matthew Lloyd

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Re: National Golf Links of America (NGLA) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #56 on: June 01, 2015, 12:41:15 PM »
Jon, whatever line of work you're in, you are in the wrong job. You need to become a professional photographer yesterday. Amazing photos.

John Sabino

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Re: National Golf Links of America (NGLA) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #57 on: June 01, 2015, 02:52:33 PM »
Wow is right!! Best post I have read on this site. I agree with Jeff, the more I play the National the more I come to appreciate that the bottle hole (#8) might be the best on the property. Gets progressively narrower from tee to green and the formidable bunkers make missing right a complete disaster.

You also nailed #16: "incomparable hole"

Author: How to Play the World's Most Exclusive Golf Clubs and Golf's Iron Horse - The Astonishing, Record-Breaking Life of Ralph Kennedy

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Patrick_Mucci

Re: National Golf Links of America (NGLA) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #58 on: June 01, 2015, 08:09:40 PM »

The Eden hole disappointed me because the Strath bunker was well to the right of the St Andrews location where it is a nightmare waiting to happen.  At NGLA there is a good sized opening between Hill and Strath, removing some of the terror. 

Which tee did you play ?
Left or right of # 12  green ?  ;D


Of course this in no way detracts from the joy of a day at NGLA.  I can think of no finer sight in golf that the view from the tee at 17!

Bill_McBride

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Re: National Golf Links of America (NGLA) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #59 on: June 02, 2015, 02:25:25 PM »
I actually gave you credit for lauding that tee in the past.  We played the usual tee in my two trips around during my 2007 visit.   

Paul Jones

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Re: National Golf Links of America (NGLA) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #60 on: June 03, 2015, 10:51:27 AM »
Jon,

Great photo tour.  I was looking for good pictures of the clubhouse and you did a fantastic job.  It is hard to find a picture of the complete front of the clubhouse.

Thank You,
Paul
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

HarryBrinkerhofDoyleIVakaBarry

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Re: National Golf Links of America (NGLA) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #61 on: June 03, 2015, 11:37:47 PM »
And don't want to ruin this thread of a magical place.  Apologies!
« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 10:27:53 PM by HaroldThe4th »

Jim Nugent

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Re: National Golf Links of America (NGLA) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #62 on: June 04, 2015, 02:04:48 AM »
Harold, do you have a problem seeing ANGC each year, on national TV, in far more detail and angles than could ever get shown in photos? 

I love the phototours on this website, and don't tire of them, any more than I would tire of seeing photos of Kate Upshaw or any number of beautiful women. 

But I disagree with your premise.  The one course I know well, that is profiled in GCA, is St. Louis CC.  As good as the phototours are, the course itself is more impressive in person.  I constantly hear the same thing about ANGC: even 3D 18-hole TV coverage doesn't come close to capturing the majesty of the course.   

 

Jeff Taylor

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Re: National Golf Links of America (NGLA) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #63 on: June 04, 2015, 08:41:52 AM »
"it takes away the mystery, the mystique, the soul of the course"

If so, then the members that play it every day / week should resign. After all, what is left to discover? I guess the same goes for art museums and or classic films. Maybe you focus too much on the imagined soul of the work instead of the real souls of the creator and observer.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 08:45:04 AM by Jeff Taylor »

GLawson

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Re: National Golf Links of America (NGLA) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #64 on: June 04, 2015, 08:54:05 AM »
I love the photo tours.  I hope I get to play NGLA someday but if I don't, Jon's pictures are the next best thing.  Keep it up!

BHoover

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Re: National Golf Links of America (NGLA) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #65 on: June 04, 2015, 09:15:49 AM »
I love the photo tours. If you don't like them, simply ignore them. But don't try to stifle others from posting or enjoying these tours. Many of us will never play these courses, so why not enjoy a great photo tour? Or how about those times when a photo tour sparks your interest to play a course for the first time. I think there are way too many people on this site who are wound just a bit too tight, myself included. Lighten up and enjoy this...or just ignore it.

In an earlier post, I took issue with some of the descriptions and came across as snarky, so I apologized to Jon. His work in this thread is top notch.

Alan Ritchie

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Re: National Golf Links of America (NGLA) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #66 on: June 04, 2015, 10:07:02 AM »
never been there, maybe never will but that tour is what it is all about. All world. love it.

Keith OHalloran

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Re: National Golf Links of America (NGLA) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #67 on: June 04, 2015, 11:44:16 AM »
I love the photo tours. If you don't like them, simply ignore them. But don't try to stifle others from posting or enjoying these tours. Many of us will never play these courses, so why not enjoy a great photo tour? Or how about those times when a photo tour sparks your interest to play a course for the first time. I think there are way too many people on this site who are wound just a bit too tight, myself included. Lighten up and enjoy this...or just ignore it.

In an earlier post, I took issue with some of the descriptions and came across as snarky, so I apologized to Jon. His work in this thread is top notch.

Hoover, I am not sure Barry was saying he does not enjoy them, he was asking a question. Many people have said they do not like to have a caddie because they want to experience the course by themselves the first time. Do full angle photo tours ruin that? And does seeing the course ruin some of the mystique? When you finally get to Friars Head, will you be more excited because you have never seen a picture of it (kind of). I like the photos, but I think the questions are valid.

BHoover

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Re: National Golf Links of America (NGLA) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #68 on: June 04, 2015, 11:50:11 AM »
I love the photo tours. If you don't like them, simply ignore them. But don't try to stifle others from posting or enjoying these tours. Many of us will never play these courses, so why not enjoy a great photo tour? Or how about those times when a photo tour sparks your interest to play a course for the first time. I think there are way too many people on this site who are wound just a bit too tight, myself included. Lighten up and enjoy this...or just ignore it.

In an earlier post, I took issue with some of the descriptions and came across as snarky, so I apologized to Jon. His work in this thread is top notch.

Hoover, I am not sure Barry was saying he does not enjoy them, he was asking a question. Many people have said they do not like to have a caddie because they want to experience the course by themselves the first time. Do full angle photo tours ruin that? And does seeing the course ruin some of the mystique? When you finally get to Friars Head, will you be more excited because you have never seen a picture of it (kind of). I like the photos, but I think the questions are valid.

It's a valid question, sure. But if you're worried that seeing the photos will ruin some of the mystique, why not just ignore it? I can only speak for myself when I say that, if anything, these photo tours make me more interested in wanting to play a course, not less inclined because of some blown aura of mystique. But that's just me.

My comments weren't directed solely at this criticism/question regarding photo tours; there are others (particularly one outspoken poster) who have made it known how they dislike photo tours.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 11:53:24 AM by Brian Hoover »

HarryBrinkerhofDoyleIVakaBarry

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Re: National Golf Links of America (NGLA) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #69 on: June 04, 2015, 02:51:17 PM »
Perhaps I am wrong.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 10:25:42 PM by HaroldThe4th »

Jon Cavalier

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Re: National Golf Links of America (NGLA) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #70 on: June 04, 2015, 03:38:03 PM »
As the creator of this thread, this debate is not one I'll wade into, as it is not my place to judge my own content.  I will leave that to all of you.  But I do want to say two things:

First, I wouldn't do these tours here if people didn't want to see them.  The page views and the responses seem to indicate pretty clearly that, at least for now, people want this content.  Unless and until that changes, I will continue to provide it.  And I hope that those who like it will continue to enjoy it.

Second, I don't think it's my place (or any other outsider's place) to judge what is in the best interests of the clubs I (or others) photograph and display here.  Were any club ever to have any issue whatsoever with photos or a tour that I put up, I would immediately respect their wishes and either take the thread down or modify it accordingly.  And when possible, I always try to either get permission or gauge the club's interest in having these photos displayed.  That said, the responses from the clubs that I have photographed for display here has been overwhelmingly positive.  Many have asked for the photographs for their own uses -- a request I am always more than happy to grant.

So, in the end, I respect but disagree with the opinion that these photographs somehow "cheapen" the experience of playing a club.  If anyone thinks that my photographs can, in any way, shape or form, replicate the experience of playing National Golf Links, or Fishers Island, or Myopia Hunt Club, then you have a higher opinion of my photography than I do.  But as I said in my opening post, if I can introduce someone to a course or an aspect of a course that they've never seen or heard of before, or provide photographs that add to the architectural discussion of a course, or invoke positive memories in those who have been to one of these venues, or even just provide a little distraction to get someone through an otherwise boring day, then I am happy to have been able to do so.
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Jeff Taylor

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Re: National Golf Links of America (NGLA) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #71 on: June 04, 2015, 03:49:18 PM »
Bingo.

Richard Choi

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Re: National Golf Links of America (NGLA) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #72 on: June 04, 2015, 04:55:58 PM »
That may be one of the dumbest things I have ever read on this board... and that is saying a lot.

I stay away from photo tours of courses that I have not visited, but likely to in the future (may be in some distant future). This one, I devoured since it is likely I will never visit it. I will decide what "mystique" to ruin for myself. I don't need you to do it for me.

This is a site to discuss golf course architecture. Why are you even here if you think that "ruins" the mystique??? This is one of the most significant course in the world when it comes to architecture. More information we have the better. We are here to gain knowledge, how could anyone argue against more information being available is infinitely baffling to me.

I couldn't give a rats ass about making it "more special" for some unknown visitor who may or may not visit this course in the future (who probably has no clue that this site even exists). Why should we give deference to them??? As long as the member was agreeable to taking pictures, why would it be a bad thing to share them here?

What the heck is going on around here?
« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 04:57:58 PM by Richard Choi »

Brian Finn

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Re: National Golf Links of America (NGLA) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #73 on: June 04, 2015, 07:52:13 PM »
That may be one of the dumbest things I have ever read on this board... and that is saying a lot.

I stay away from photo tours of courses that I have not visited, but likely to in the future (may be in some distant future). This one, I devoured since it is likely I will never visit it. I will decide what "mystique" to ruin for myself. I don't need you to do it for me.

This is a site to discuss golf course architecture. Why are you even here if you think that "ruins" the mystique??? This is one of the most significant course in the world when it comes to architecture. More information we have the better. We are here to gain knowledge, how could anyone argue against more information being available is infinitely baffling to me.

I couldn't give a rats ass about making it "more special" for some unknown visitor who may or may not visit this course in the future (who probably has no clue that this site even exists). Why should we give deference to them??? As long as the member was agreeable to taking pictures, why would it be a bad thing to share them here?

What the heck is going on around here?

It pains me to agree with a Michigan man, but when you're right, you're right.

Please keep them coming, Jon.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 07:54:02 PM by Brian Finn »
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Jeff Taylor

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Re: National Golf Links of America (NGLA) - A Photo Tour
« Reply #74 on: June 04, 2015, 08:25:31 PM »
Why is this so difficult?
Playing there was magical. I refuse to feel guilty. That images are available is not a bad thing.
JT

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