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Steve_ Shaffer

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Nicklaus, Dye and Harbour Town
« on: April 16, 2018, 02:16:48 PM »
Interesting article about the construction of the course with a short video:


http://www.islandpacket.com/sports/golf/rbc-heritage-tournament/article208157164.html
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
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Tom_Doak

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Re: Nicklaus, Dye and Harbour Town
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2018, 06:10:19 PM »
I had never heard that Jack recommended Pete become involved, and not the other way around.


But, it makes sense.  Pete did tell me that the routing had actually been done by George Cobb, a couple of years before he got involved, as part of the master plan for Sea Pines Plantation.  But it makes more sense for them to have switched designers after talking to Jack, than to have done it on their own, and then get Jack involved, on top of that.

BCrosby

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Re: Nicklaus, Dye and Harbour Town
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2018, 08:07:49 AM »
Tom -


George Cobb was something of a star architect until the mid-60's. He was called on to make changes at ANGC and later at East Lake in connection with the '63 Ryder Cup. He had lots of other high profile work at the time. But by the end of the '60's his star seems to have waned. Any thoughts as to why?


I'm not a big fan of Cobb's work, but the arch of his career is unusual.


Bob 

Edward Glidewell

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Re: Nicklaus, Dye and Harbour Town
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2018, 10:19:57 AM »
Tom -


George Cobb was something of a star architect until the mid-60's. He was called on to make changes at ANGC and later at East Lake in connection with the '63 Ryder Cup. He had lots of other high profile work at the time. But by the end of the '60's his star seems to have waned. Any thoughts as to why?


I'm not a big fan of Cobb's work, but the arch of his career is unusual.


Bob


I'm not sure it waned -- I think he just built a lot of courses that no one talks about today. Looking at his Wikipedia page, he built 37 courses in the 1970s (with a mix of private, public, and resort courses), so he was clearly still in demand as an architect. He really only slowed down once the 1980s rolled around, and he died in 1986, so that may have been age/health related.

BCrosby

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Re: Nicklaus, Dye and Harbour Town
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2018, 11:28:01 AM »
Edward -


Cobb did design a lot of courses in the late 60's and '70's. He designed a third nine at Athens CC in the early 70's, where I grew up. His NLE course at Fort MacPherson in Atlanta was o.k. He did a fair amount of work in GA and FL.


By "his star waned" I meant that Cobb went from working on high profile projects (ANGC and East Lake) to those more down market by the late '60's. Why that downward sloping arch is my question. Might it be simply that, in the end, he lacked the talent or drive of others? Or was something else going on?


Bob     

Edward Glidewell

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Re: Nicklaus, Dye and Harbour Town
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2018, 11:38:11 AM »
Isn't it possible that's just historical hindsight, though?


We consider working on ANGC (he built the par 3 course, I think) and East Lake as high profile jobs now, but was that really the case at the time? Was there even such a thing as a high profile job in golf course architecture or were courses mainly looking for someone nearby who could do whatever work they were looking for? I think it's at least plausible that he was just a local Georgia/southeastern architect who'd already built multiple golf courses and that's why he was asked to work both places.


Tom_Doak

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Re: Nicklaus, Dye and Harbour Town
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2018, 08:00:36 PM »
Isn't it possible that's just historical hindsight, though?


We consider working on ANGC (he built the par 3 course, I think) and East Lake as high profile jobs now, but was that really the case at the time? Was there even such a thing as a high profile job in golf course architecture or were courses mainly looking for someone nearby who could do whatever work they were looking for? I think it's at least plausible that he was just a local Georgia/southeastern architect who'd already built multiple golf courses and that's why he was asked to work both places.


Those WERE high-profile jobs, but the rest of your thesis is correct:  Augusta and Peachtree wanted someone local who could follow orders, not someone to redesign it for them.


As to Bob's question, I think George Cobb's star was very dim, and visible only in the skies of the southeast.  And once he built a lot of courses there, his range was revealed and his star faded quickly.  But perhaps that's unfair; I haven't really seen many of his courses.

Edward Glidewell

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Re: Nicklaus, Dye and Harbour Town
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2018, 08:26:29 PM »
Those WERE high-profile jobs, but the rest of your thesis is correct:  Augusta and Peachtree wanted someone local who could follow orders, not someone to redesign it for them.


As to Bob's question, I think George Cobb's star was very dim, and visible only in the skies of the southeast.  And once he built a lot of courses there, his range was revealed and his star faded quickly.  But perhaps that's unfair; I haven't really seen many of his courses.


I wonder how many of his courses still exist in an untouched state (not to mention however many may have closed). Quail Hollow is called a George Cobb course, but it's been significantly altered by both Arnold Palmer and Tom Fazio. I believe he did the Bryan Park Players Course in Greensboro, NC where I have played a couple of times, but I think it was altered by Rees Jones when he built the Champions Course there.

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