[Sean_A]

Grant

In the case of Pinehurst, didn't they need to remove acres of bermuda and replace it with "native" so that lower inputs and less money spent cutting grass could be achieved?  It would be a strange thing to just starve the grass and let whatever happen, happen...no?  

Sean,

This statement surprises me, coming from you. I would think you would much prefer native to happen in a natural way. What could possibly be more natural than letting nature run its' course...so to speak?

Yeamans Hall(I've mentioned this example before) is the best look I've seen on a great course. The rough transitions to different grasses that have adapted to the (lack of) conditioning and then just melts into the native soils/ pine straws that are already there...no one manufactured the look...or playability.

Joe

Joe

I too like YHC's rough assuming its kept fairly short and oddball stuff isn't allowed to grow profusely, but I also think Pinehurst is very special and so "allowances" should be made to make the course not only attractive and playable, but also challenging for flat bellies...imo Pinehurst has succeeded in achieving these goals.  The current presentation far better reflects the sandy nature of site rather than wall to wall bermuda.   I find it hard to fault the presentation in any way.  

Jeff

I don't know if costs are down, but it was thought that water costs would be reduced by 40%...no?  Taking care of the native is much like taking care of rough. I have to believe that if the company carries on with the original concepts it will save money.  I don't worry about the initial costs because thats a wash...money was going to be chucked around to host the Open anyway...this is one of the few times that hosting an Open has had a positive impact on the design of a host venue.  I can't understand how anybody could be down on Pinehurst.

JME - as you say, your issue is with the USGA, not Pinehurst. I give credit to local supers who can decide for themselves how much inputs can be reduced by clubs accepting certain imperfections.  These battles will be and are individual to clubs.  Pinehurst had its "battle" and came out smelling like roses imo. 

Ciao

[Jeff Shelman]

I am going to be very interested to see how this thing plays out.

I played CB last May -- so about a month shy of what would be the tournament week -- and I left having no idea how the Open will play out.

I'm most interested in what happens with the greens and how the players react to them. There's a chance that they don't get super fast and if that happens, the pros will probably complain. But if they do get fast, I think the players will complain about the conditions being too fast for the slopes in the greens.

Jeff,

Good point.  IMO they shouldn't make them too fast with the contour and firmness of the greens.  At some speeds it becomes goofy golf.  The other thing to consider is the slopes and strategy were built for a certain speed.  The features play best at stimp 9 in my option.

Brent,

Here is where I think it could get interesting. The PGA Tour players are used to a life where the greens are perfect and the greens are very fast. If they aren't fast, smooth and perfect, the players will whine and complain.

And if players whine, there will be a segment of the population that will likely think that the course must suck.

[jeffwarne]

Sean,
Not down on Pinehurst at all.
In fact I think t looks quite appealing as a course now.(only seen pictures and TV since the reno)
had no texture when I played it and clearly I wasn't sophisticated enough to get all the hype.

I am genuinely curious if they have less inputs-nothing is ever quite as easy as it seems.
and if it costs less to maintain and is more sustainable I'm all for it.
I'm just not sure that's a given with more fairway width and areas that ultimately need some form of maintenance.


Given your "sticker shock" course evaluation system, I'm surprised you're not down on them.
Sure they have some rates that seem comparatively reasonable-but it could be 38 degrees at at that time.

I just prefer the poor man's sand hills-Aiken GC ($25 ), Palmetto, and Midland valley ($19)

[Sean_A]

Jeff

Sure, the price drives me away, but thats life, not a knock on the design or presentation.  I would like to get down to Aiken and Palmetto sometime...they sound lovely.

Ciao

[Brent Carlson]

I am going to be very interested to see how this thing plays out.

I played CB last May -- so about a month shy of what would be the tournament week -- and I left having no idea how the Open will play out.

I'm most interested in what happens with the greens and how the players react to them. There's a chance that they don't get super fast and if that happens, the pros will probably complain. But if they do get fast, I think the players will complain about the conditions being too fast for the slopes in the greens.

Jeff,

Good point.  IMO they shouldn't make them too fast with the contour and firmness of the greens.  At some speeds it becomes goofy golf.  The other thing to consider is the slopes and strategy were built for a certain speed.  The features play best at stimp 9 in my option.

Brent,

Here is where I think it could get interesting. The PGA Tour players are used to a life where the greens are perfect and the greens are very fast. If they aren't fast, smooth and perfect, the players will whine and complain.

And if players whine, there will be a segment of the population that will likely think that the course must suck.

Jeff,

You're spot on.  These greens will not be what pros are used to.  Fescue greens are simply not that fast - and the slopes at CB are not built for speed.  Players like Ogilvy will understand this, others may not.  It will be interesting for sure.

[Greg Gilson]

I have 2 groups of Aussies (each 16 golfers) playing CB twice as part of a 2 week west coast tour - 1 late March & 1 early May. I have been liaising with the venue and here is their latest position:

We are currently playing to a total of 6 alternate greens, but will begin to open the original greens as of March 1.  By the end of the month, you can expect to be playing to the majority of the U.S. Open golf course. There are no plans for playing off mats in the fairways, though we will be protecting some teeing grounds (on par 3s), and some of the known fairway collection areas will likely be protected as well.


Sounds pretty reasonable to me...assuming they stick to this.

[Jon Cavalier]

I have 2 groups of Aussies (each 16 golfers) playing CB twice as part of a 2 week west coast tour - 1 late March & 1 early May. I have been liaising with the venue and here is their latest position:

We are currently playing to a total of 6 alternate greens, but will begin to open the original greens as of March 1.  By the end of the month, you can expect to be playing to the majority of the U.S. Open golf course. There are no plans for playing off mats in the fairways, though we will be protecting some teeing grounds (on par 3s), and some of the known fairway collection areas will likely be protected as well.


Sounds pretty reasonable to me...assuming they stick to this.

This is more or less exactly what I was told - and if it's true, I'll be very happy.

[Matthew Essig]

I have 2 groups of Aussies (each 16 golfers) playing CB twice as part of a 2 week west coast tour - 1 late March & 1 early May. I have been liaising with the venue and here is their latest position:

We are currently playing to a total of 6 alternate greens, but will begin to open the original greens as of March 1.  By the end of the month, you can expect to be playing to the majority of the U.S. Open golf course. There are no plans for playing off mats in the fairways, though we will be protecting some teeing grounds (on par 3s), and some of the known fairway collection areas will likely be protected as well.


Sounds pretty reasonable to me...assuming they stick to this.

This is more or less exactly what I was told - and if it's true, I'll be very happy.

As far as I know, that sounds about spot on. There are a couple collection areas, like on 8, that get heavy divot density, so expect a mat in those places, and sometimes on the par 3s.

[Greg Gilson]

Hi guys, my group played CB yesterday. Great weather, great course, great conditions....mostly. There were 2 "alternative"  (not temporary) greens. The one on 4 was no problem. However, 2 things bugged mu guys (plus the fact that this was not communicated until the caddy did so on course):

#12. Great drivaebale par 4 converted to 100 metre shot from a mat to a temporary (sorry alternative) green in the left edge of the fairway.

#15. The condition that started this thread right at the top. Players hit a tee shot & then their balls are collected & they are ushered to 16 tee. They did not even allow you to hit a second shot. If you missed the green you were awarded a score of 4 (2'nd shot theoretically onto the green & then the complimentary 2 putt)

I empathise with Kemper Sports managing play while the USGA is managing course prep. However, I believe they need to OVER communicate this stuff better and in advance. I have also suggested they consider offering players some kind of offsetting gift (even a drink voucher) acknowledging the inconvenience.

Its a long way to come from Oz to Tacoma to get surprised by this stuff - especially when I triple-checked things a month ago!

[Benjamin Litman]

On a related note, I've been toying with the idea of an Ireland trip this spring (not going to happen), so I emailed Royal County Down to ask whether the gorse and heather were in bloom. Here is the response I received this morning:

"Thank you for your enquiry, The gorse and heather are already out. But just to let you know as we are hosting the Irish Open at end of May, there are measures in place at the moment to protect the fairways from damage. Players are required to lift their ball from the fairway and place it in the rough or use mats. The course is closed from 17th May and will reopen 4th June."

Those seem like pretty "extreme measures" to me, especially as it's true links turf.

[Adam Lawrence]

On a related note, I've been toying with the idea of an Ireland trip this spring (not going to happen), so I emailed Royal County Down to ask whether the gorse and heather were in bloom. Here is the response I received this morning:

"Thank you for your enquiry, The gorse and heather are already out. But just to let you know as we are hosting the Irish Open at end of May, there are measures in place at the moment to protect the fairways from damage. Players are required to lift their ball from the fairway and place it in the rough or use mats. The course is closed from 17th May and will reopen 4th June."

Those seem like pretty "extreme measures" to me, especially as it's true links turf.

The gorse may be out but there is NO WAY their heather will be in bloom now. Heather flowers in July and August

[Benjamin Litman]

Good to know, Adam. Many thanks. Heather or no heather, I'm not going to make a trip to play Royal County Down off of mats...

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