[Ronald Montesano]

Harry was quite the wordsmith, nay, even the poet!

[Ben Hollerbach]

My understanding has always been that the mashie was 5 iron equal and mashie niblick was the 7 iron equal, half way between mashie and niblick.   As always I could be completely wrong!

A Mashie Iron is more similar to a 5 iron, while a Mashie is closer to a 7. I think in a lot of ways the loss in translation is how we today think of the word iron describing a category of club while at the time an iron was a specific club. The basic hickory set is made up of Irons, Mashies, and Niblicks. With the combination clubs (Mashie-Iron, Mashie-Niblick) bridging the gaps. In a lot of ways the Iron or Mid-Iron were interchangeable and played like a modern 3 iron, the Mashie like a modern 7 iron, and the Niblick like the modern wedge. I want to point out that I use the phrase 'played like' as often times while the measurable specs of a club might put it more in line with another modern club, the practice of using said club often produces a different result. This is very true with the clubs at each end of the spectrum as niblicks rarely play in a similar fashion to modern wedges and Mid Irons or longer of hickory rarely play like a modern long iron.

[Philip Hensley]

Wouldn't it be interesting to have a pro toon-a-mint with local rule only 8 clubs and no use of pegged tee in the ground?  

I've just seen the light.

No need for longer courses. No need to rein back the ball. No need to for different rules for pros and amateurs.

Simply abolish the tee peg.


Brilliant!

Or let them use a tee, but can only carry 8 clubs and no club can be of a loft more than 45 degrees.

[Thomas Dai]

I came across this thread from Ben about Harry Vardon's opinion of golf course architecture and thought it needed referencing here -

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,40586.0.html

and this is Royal Jersey GC, complete with it's epic opening hole, the course that is now located on the common land where he started to play as a lad -

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,55239.0.html

atb

[Matthew Mollica]

I've been reading a copy of The Australian Golfer, written by Dan Soutar and published in 1906. There's some fascinating content. It features among many other interesting tidbits, a table (including weights) of Vardon's clubs, as well as lists of the clubs (and their lengths) as used by the great triumvirate and Soutar.

As presented, Vardon was the only one to use a niblick. Soutar (designer of Kingston Heath and several other courses) also carried ten clubs, which included a spare driver, and his most lofted iron was a mashie niblick, whereas Braid and Taylor both relied upon a mashie as their most lofted club.

Vardon's ten clubs, as listed in Soutar's book, closely resemble those presented in the article at the start of this thread, with the exception of a direct reference to the mongrel mashie. Soutar seemed to know of Vardon's preference to carry both a driving mashie and driving cleek.

MM

[Matthew Mollica]

Also interesting to note that Ralph Livingston's set included a mongrel mashie.

[Bill_McBride]

I've been reading a copy of The Australian Golfer, written by Dan Soutar and published in 1906. There's some fascinating content. It features among many other interesting tidbits, a table (including weights) of Vardon's clubs, as well as lists of the clubs (and their lengths) as used by the great triumvirate and Soutar.

As presented, Vardon was the only one to use a niblick. Soutar (designer of Kingston Heath and several other courses) also carried ten clubs, which included a spare driver, and his most lofted iron was a mashie niblick, whereas Braid and Taylor both relied upon a mashie as their most lofted club.

Vardon's ten clubs, as listed in Soutar's book, closely resemble those presented in the article at the start of this thread, with the exception of a direct reference to the mongrel mashie. Soutar seemed to know of Vardon's preference to carry both a driving mashie and driving cleek.

MM

Braid and Taylor must have been geniuses to get out of bunkers like Strath without at least a niblick.   Or did they just not get in them?   

[Thomas Dai]

I suspect that manufacturing very lofted irons might have been pretty difficult in the early days. The models I've seen have, unlike more modern wedges, rather a lot of metal in the lower hosel area, between the hosel and the top edge of the head, akin to webbing between fingers, I imagine to maintain strength. No reason to not use one though, if available.
Atb

[Matthew Mollica]

This link speak with reasonable authority and detail on Francis Ouimet's set. Interestingly - again only 10 clubs.

http://www.thegolfballfactory.com/Hall-of-Champions/what-was-in-francis-ouimet's-golf-bag.htm

[James Bennett]

I carry 'only' 13 clubs at present.

I wonder whether a 'mongrel mashie' might be a good addition to my set, for play out of long grass.

Do you think Callaway will 'develop' and market such a club? If they did, how many other manufacturers would follow?  The new 'hybrid' club.

James B

[Jim_Kennedy]

James,

The specs given on Ralph Livingston's site for a mongrel mashie make it sound like a modern day six iron.

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