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Bill Stahler

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Herbert Strong & Army Navy CC
« on: October 05, 2014, 08:25:47 PM »
I am new member of Golf Club Atlas and a member of the Army Navy Country Club (ANCC). I have been working with the ANCC Foundation on project to document the evolution of our two courses (27 holes at Arlington VA and 27 holes in Fairfax VA).  ANCC was founded in 1924, the initial property procured/leased in 1926 and the original 18 holes (designed by Major Richard Newman) was opened in 1928 (first nine) and 1929 (second nine).  In 1936/37 the course was expanded to 27 holes with little of the original 18 holes surviving.  It has long been assumed that Newman (who remained on the Board of Governors until his death in 1939) was the designer of the 27-hole course, but no supporting documentation has been found.  My research lead me to a Golf Club Atlas thread initiated by Geoffrey Walsh on March 13, 2010 in which he asked for assistance in developing a list of Herbert Strong designed courses.  The initial list (3/13/2010) did not include ANCC Arlington, but a revised list posted the next day listed the "White/Inner Nine" at ANCC Arlington.  Unfortunately, I have not been able to find anything else (including a thorough search of our golf course architectural drawings) to support Herbert Strong's involvement.  If anyone can provide the source of the ANCC entry on the Herbert Strong designed courses listing, it would be most appreciated.  Note:  Cornish & Whitten's "Architects of Golf" erroneously list ANCC Fairfax (Fairfax Country Club until ANCC's purchase in 1958) as a Herbert Strong design.  Fairfax Country Club was designed by Robert Trent Jones, Sr.  (we have the January 1940 Master Plan as proof), but has not been generally recognized as such because the developer (John V. Connolly) chose to build the course himself (he was the former greenskeeper at ANCC Arlington) instead of using one of RTJ's designated contractors. 

Joe Bausch

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Re: Herbert Strong & Army Navy CC
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2014, 08:17:42 AM »
Welcome to GolfClubAtlas, Bill.

I've already dug around some trying to find any architectural info on the courses of the Army Navy CC, but so far have nothing.  But I'll keep looking....

@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Sven Nilsen

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« Last Edit: October 06, 2014, 11:26:27 AM by Sven Nilsen »
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Bill_McBride

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Re: Herbert Strong & Army Navy CC
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2014, 11:16:00 AM »
I was a member of the Country Club of Fairfax from 1983-1995.   The club was formed and the course built in the 1940's after WWII.  I never heard any discussion about Army-Navy Fairfax perhaps having been the predecessor club, but I wonder where the Fairfax members went when ANCC bought the course. 

Bill Stahler

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Re: Herbert Strong & Army Navy CC
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2014, 08:40:24 PM »
For Joe Bausch - Thanks, your assistance is most appreciated.

For Sven Nilsen - Thanks for the Dacy article. I have this same article published in the October 1929 edition of "Golf Illustrated" and suspect it is the same article that appeared in the July 19, 1929 edition of the Washington "Evening Star."  I did not have the annotated aerial photograph, this being of Newman's original 18 hole layout.  I do have aerials from the US Geological Survey dated 1934 (original 18) and 1949 (Ross modified 27 necessitated by the loss of 19 acres to the construction of the Shirley Highway, today's I-395) and from the USGA dated 1940 (original 27) and 1949 (Ross modified 27).

For Bill McBride - You are absolutely correct about the Country Club of Fairfax (originally Courthouse Country Club).  However, Fairfax Country Club (now ANCC Fairfax) and Country Club of Fairfax were not one and the same.  They did share an architect as RTJ Senior designed the second nine at CCF (1952), William Gordon designed the first nine (1946).  FCC was a public course so did not have a membership to be dispossessed.

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Herbert Strong & Army Navy CC
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2014, 08:47:56 PM »
Bill:

I'd really like to see the various aerials.  If you need someone to post them for you, let me know.

Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Bill_McBride

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Re: Herbert Strong & Army Navy CC
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2014, 08:55:38 PM »
For Joe Bausch - Thanks, your assistance is most appreciated.

For Sven Nilsen - Thanks for the Dacy article. I have this same article published in the October 1929 edition of "Golf Illustrated" and suspect it is the same article that appeared in the July 19, 1929 edition of the Washington "Evening Star."  I did not have the annotated aerial photograph, this being of Newman's original 18 hole layout.  I do have aerials from the US Geological Survey dated 1934 (original 18) and 1949 (Ross modified 27 necessitated by the loss of 19 acres to the construction of the Shirley Highway, today's I-395) and from the USGA dated 1940 (original 27) and 1949 (Ross modified 27).

For Bill McBride - You are absolutely correct about the Country Club of Fairfax (originally Courthouse Country Club).  However, Fairfax Country Club (now ANCC Fairfax) and Country Club of Fairfax were not one and the same.  They did share an architect as RTJ Senior designed the second nine at CCF (1952), William Gordon designed the first nine (1946).  FCC was a public course so did not have a membership to be dispossessed.

Interesting, Bill, I never heard Robert Trent Jones' name mentioned once in the 13 years I was a member.  Just checked the website, there's not a hint of any historical references.  I do know Art Hills came in to screw up a very good par 3. 

Neil_Crafter

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Re: Herbert Strong & Army Navy CC
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2014, 09:12:44 PM »
Welcome Bill !

Bill Stahler

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Re: Herbert Strong & Army Navy CC
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2014, 07:26:21 AM »
For Bill McBride:  The Master Plan for Fairfax Country Club (i.e. ANCC Fairfax) is hanging in the Fairfax club house and annotates RTJ as the golf architect.  The ANCC "Historical Review, 1924-1989" includes the summary of an interview with John Connolly, the FCC developer, in which he states that RTJ was the architect.  My interaction with Roger Rulewich, who maintains the "list" of RTJ courses, indicates that RTJ, because he considered "field work" to be integral to golf course design, did not consider a course to be his design unless one of his designated companies actually constructed the course.  Our current Fairfax head professional, Keith Beaver, recalls a conversation he had with Charlie Mock, the greens keeper whose tenure extended over both the FCC and ANCC eras, in which he said that Connolly constructed the course himself from RTJs plans.  Given that Connolly was a former USDA agronomist and greens superintendent (at ANCC Arlington for four years), this is not surprising. Some months ago Roger Rulewich had agreed to add ANCC Fairfax to the list with an asterisk indicating "routing only."  The last I checked the RTJ Society on-line list of courses had not yet reflected this change.  I have sent an e-mail to Roger requesting status.  Another fact that few members know of is that Donald Ross was involved in the 1944 changes at Arlington to accommodate our loss of 19 acres to the construction of the Shirley Highway (we have one J.G. McGovern drawing under Ross's name - the Irrigation Plan.)

Chris DeToro

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Re: Herbert Strong & Army Navy CC
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2014, 07:37:33 AM »
It is interesting how little of the history seems to have been preserved at ANCC.  I had heard rumblings of Ross' work when I was there, but there was never anything concrete.  RTJ seemed to be the most common.

Which par 3 did Hills work on?  That is news to me...

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: Herbert Strong & Army Navy CC
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2014, 09:30:42 AM »
Did Richard Mandell look into the history when he was at ANCC, and find nothing about Strong?
 
http://www.golf-architecture.com/about.php?id=17
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Bill_McBride

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Re: Herbert Strong & Army Navy CC
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2014, 03:29:26 PM »
It is interesting how little of the history seems to have been preserved at ANCC.  I had heard rumblings of Ross' work when I was there, but there was never anything concrete.  RTJ seemed to be the most common.

Which par 3 did Hills work on?  That is news to me...

Chris, I was referring to #7 at CC of Fairfax.  The work was done after I left and I have not been back. From what I have heard, the hole now crosses the creek that was parallel left before and seldom came into play.

Bill Stahler

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Re: Herbert Strong & Army Navy CC
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2014, 08:02:06 PM »
Chris DeToro:  Arthur Hill's was the favorite to do the course remodeling (both Fairfax and Arlington) that eventually went to Richard Mandell.  As I understand it, Hill's master plan was voted down.  Bottom Line:  Hill's proposals were never implemented.  As for the Ross's involvement at ANCC, the Tuft's Archives provided me with copies of two articles from "The Pinehurst Outlook". The first dated 5/12/1944 states that Ross (and J.B. McGovern) were scheduled to visit ANCC on 5/18/44. The second dated 6/9/44 states that Ross "spent a number of days in Washington working on plans for the revision of the golf course at the Army and Navy Club."

Jim Kennedy:  I have been in contact with Richard Mandell and he said that he found the same "hole" in the architectural history as I.

Sven Nilsen:  Provide me with instructions on how to post the aerial photographs and I will do so.

Craig Disher

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Re: Herbert Strong & Army Navy CC
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2014, 09:22:51 AM »
These aerials probably show the Ross alterations to ANCC. The obvious problem for the club was the construction of what would later become I95. The little 4-lane version (known as Shirley Highway) is visible in 1948.





Bill Stahler

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Re: Herbert Strong & Army Navy CC
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2014, 08:17:39 AM »
In spite of numerous efforts, I have yet to be successful in contacting Geoffrey Chase to ascertain the source of his inclusion of the White and Inner Nines at Army Navy Country Club Arlington on his 2010 list of Herbert Strong designed golf courses.  If anyone can assist in this endeavor or has any suggestions in continuing my research, it would be most appreciated.

Geoffrey_Walsh

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Re: Herbert Strong & Army Navy CC
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2014, 12:45:09 PM »
Bill,

If you have been trying to contact me, apologies for not looking at your threads.

I believe the inclusion of ANCC came from a simple search on the web of courses attributed to Strong since we were literally starting from scratch when I initiated the thread.  It was meant more for others as a starting point to verify through historical research and hopefully it would raise awareness of Herbert's work.  Here is a link illustrating an example of what came up when we looked back in 2010:

http://courses.golfdigest.com/l/28379/Army-Navy-Country-Club-Arlington-White

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.  I still feel Herbert Strong is widely under appreciated.

Regards,

Geoff
« Last Edit: November 22, 2014, 12:48:32 PM by Geoffrey_Walsh »

Paul Gray

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Re: Herbert Strong & Army Navy CC
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2014, 01:28:29 PM »
Big welcome to the madhouse.
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

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