[Dan Kelly]

When Max Behr woke up one morning from unsettling dreams, he found himself changed into Franz Kafka, who, strangely, had himself dreamt that he was a young Joshua Crane, playing from the 15th tee to the 16th green at Ballyneal, in a fourball match with John Kavanaugh, Penelope Cruz and Prince Andrew. 

Was Shivas Irons caddying for one of them?

I'm with you and Mrs. Doak. I start at the beginning and go to the end (unless I decide the journey isn't worth it -- or unless Page 116 is particularly dull, in which case I'll skip from 115 to 117). I'm sure that, until I've played enough rounds at Ballyneal to really understand it, I'd go from 1 through 18 and then back to the 1st tee (or, I guess, "teeing grounds").

But it takes all kinds, I guess.

"My" column is designed to be read from beginning to end. I construct it to be read that way. There are very often *connections* (interesting juxtapositions) from one item to the next.

But my own wife, knowing all of this, tends to read it more usually from end-to-beginning -- or to read the various items in NO particular order. Oh, well. So much for craftsmanship!

Of course, she often peeks at the last page of novels she's reading -- a prospect unthinkable to me.

[Jim Sherma]

Before I get this back on the topic of GCA I fully admit to routinely opening a book in the middle and reading chunks of it. I do this with a couple of handfuls of books I know very well and also with new books to see if they are worth reading all the way through.

Now back to GCA. I had no problem with Ballyneal's lack of tee markers. We tried to play many of the different options available to us. Except for certain instances I did not feel that the holes played that significantly differently other than for the yardages of course. We tended to look more for different angles as opposed to different yardages. I found it to be quite interesting to play a course in that way and that it added to the experience. We did play off of a few of the green's edges but mostly from areas that were obviously defined tee boxes.

Would the experience have been better with defined tee boxes mandating a certain set of yardages and angles in order to post a score? - Certainly not, but I am one of those guys that bemoans the pencil and card mentality and believe that the game is meant to be played at match play.

Is this something that I think more courses should follow? If it fostered a culture of match play and de-emphasized the scorecard than most certainly. I am pretty sure that we will never see it happen though except at a place as remote and special as Ballyneal.

[George Pazin]

...
I wrote my honours thesis at University largely discussing the premise that any great novel could be picked up and read from any starting place, focusing on Catch-22, Gulliver's Travels and Ulysses.  I think it was Nomran Mailer from whom I stole this idea, but is was the 60's and who remembers anything from the 60's.....

Rich, well, if you did steal it from Mailer he stole it from Kierkegaard who went on at some length and with some frequency on the the topic of not starting at the start...

Peter, I think you are exactly right that the freedom to NOT make certain kinds of choices is both sweet and wise...

Kierkegaard/Schmeerkegaard

Anything worthy of thought, whether it be epistomology, literature or golf course architecture requires some kind of leap of faith to confirm its beauty.  Any analysis that only goes from point A to point Z misses the quality of all the points in between.  Somewhere, along all of those paths there is a long carry that seems impossible, but can be conquered with guile and courage.

Rich

Explains a lot, thanks for sharing.

[Peter Pallotta]

"Much later on, a few weeks or months afterwards, I can't remember now -- memory loss, one of the sad side-effects of the medication that saved my life -- I ran into her at our favourite cafe; it is just around the corner, ironically, from Nancy's apartment, though we never knew that. And she looked at me for a long time, almost as if I actually were the ghost she had so often dreamed about after her breakdown. I managed a weak 'Hello, Mary' and then started coughing. When I'd finally caught my breath, she said 'It was never going to be the same again, Tom. It could never be the same -- ever again'."

Hmm. Yes, that's satisfying.

I'm very glad I started in the middle.

 

 

[Rich Goodale]

When Max Behr woke up one morning from unsettling dreams, he found himself changed into Franz Kafka, who, strangely, had himself dreamt that he was a young Joshua Crane, playing from the 15th tee to the 16th green at Ballyneal, in a fourball match with John Kavanaugh, Penelope Cruz and Prince Andrew. 

Was Shivas Irons caddying for one of them?

I'm with you and Mrs. Doak. I start at the beginning and go to the end (unless I decide the journey isn't worth it -- or unless Page 116 is particularly dull, in which case I'll skip from 115 to 117). I'm sure that, until I've played enough rounds at Ballyneal to really understand it, I'd go from 1 through 18 and then back to the 1st tee (or, I guess, "teeing grounds").

But it takes all kinds, I guess.

"My" column is designed to be read from beginning to end. I construct it to be read that way. There are very often *connections* (interesting juxtapositions) from one item to the next.

But my own wife, knowing all of this, tends to read it more usually from end-to-beginning -- or to read the various items in NO particular order. Oh, well. So much for craftsmanship!

Of course, she often peeks at the last page of novels she's reading -- a prospect unthinkable to me.

Dan

As one of the admirers of your work, I understand your attachment to the linear form of writing.  But...

....what about

"....a way a lone a last a loved a long the / riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs."

Or, if you wanted to slightly reconstruct "Moby Dick" to begin:

"It was the devious-cruising Rachel, that in her retracing search after her missing children, only found another orphan.

Call me Ishmael."

Rich

[Dan Kelly]

....what about

"....a way a lone a last a loved a long the / riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs."

ihRc --

That must have been on Page 116...

As I said: It takes all kinds! And more power to them (you).

Dan

[Sean_A]

"Screw all that. On my first visit to Ballyneal, I'm going to pick ONE SET of tees, say the whites [edit: one set of "teeing grounds", say the middle-ish] and play those for a full 18 holes; and I'm going to bring a scorecard and pencil; and I'm going to play with the best equipment I have and try to shoot the best possible score I can; and I'm going to play the course just the way the score card says, from 1 through 18, in that order -- and then on my second round I'm going to do exactly the same thing, i.e. I will GOLF on a wonderful golf COURSE in the way it was DESIGNED to play.

Pietro

I don't understand what the hub bub is about.  Do as you please.

Ciao

[Peter Pallotta]

Sean - but of course. Absolutely. No problemo. 

That said: is there anything around here that isn't hub-bub?  Naturally: we can all do as we please, and like what we want, and play where we choose, and pay what we can. But then, I don't know what we can actually discuss on this discussion board, other than planning our winter getaways.

Just trying to keep myself interested, for better or worse. 

Peter

[Sean_A]

Pietro

I only meant that playing the course as you propose strikes me as very reasonable.  I likely wouldn't choose that route, but I am failing to see the issue.

Ciao

[SL_Solow]

Interesting topic as usual Peter.  I always thought that one of the most interesting things to consider in analyzing a routing was what some describe as the "flow",  the relationship of each hole to the next, when the difficult challenges arise, whether there are breathers etc.  By playing the holes out of sequence or changing the beginning of a hole, one alters that dimension.
  On the other hand (sorry but I do practice law) each hole presents its own unique problem and as such, the order may not be critical, particular after multiple plays.  Note the prevalence of shotgun starts in club events.  Finally, by varying tee grounds, one might appreciate other possibilities for a hole.  The best example is playing cross country golf on an empty course, particularly one that you know well or maybe the Sheep Ranch.
  So each position has its benefits.  But on balance, I prefer playing the course as it was laid out thereby giving myself an opportunity to experience the course and its challenges as the architect intended.  As for the pencil and scorecard; I generally carry them and try to do my best but it is not critical for an evaluation.  Even for the match play adherents, I am reminded that Bobby Jones advised that the best way to win matches was to play the course and let one's opponent take care of himself.  Hard to do but generally good advice.  So the manner of playing should not be impacted.  I confess that when there is nothing on the line, I will try shots I wouldn't ordinarily attempt both for the fun of it and to see whether I should try them when there is something on the line.

[Jeff Tang]

I've been fortunate to be invited to Ballyneal a handful of times.  My very first visit I played the course four times and each time my score improved. I can understand the argument of playing the course as the architect intended and there is satisfaction in learning and applying what you learn on each subsequent play. I can see why this makes sense in initial visits to courses.  In return visits, however, I see no need to continue to play from just one set of tees each round.  As was previously mentioned the wind would make it difficult to want to do that all of the time. But I think the bigger reason is that the greens at Ballyneal have so much variety that it's interesting to approach them from a variety of angles and directions. Each green seems like it could be approached from almost any direction and still provide cool shots.  If you don't take advantage of this option it seems like a missed opportunity.  One could still play the course more traditionally and likely never get tired of it but why wouldn't you want to explore new ways of playing a hole if the opportunity presents itself?  I'm not saying the individual made up holes would be better than what Tom designed but why not mix it up if the course has enough flexibility to do so?  It's fun finding new holes to play even if they're different than what Tom intended.

[Sven Nilsen]

Is page 116 functionally equivalent to the 12th hole on a golf course?

If so, its as good a place as any to start (or to use as an example).

Playing the regular tees, I'm hoping to hold the left side of the fairway, setting up an angle for whichever quadrant the pin is in that day.

Playing the back tees, I'm just trying to get there in 2.

Quite the opposite from the front tees, where driving the green is a possibility.

And once on the green, no matter where the pin is, I'm going to try all kinds of different putts.  Into and out of the back valley, up to the front right tier, and from all kinds of angles using the slopes on the front left. 

Then, just for kicks, I might take a right turn off the green instead of exiting back left and play 13 as the monster it can be.

[Brian Potash]

To each his own, but to me what I like most about Ballyneal (the course, not the whole experience) is that you CANNOT post your scores, no matter what they happen to be.

If I play 100 rounds a year, it's a big relief to play 5-10 without any care for what number I shoot.

I'm not really interested in playing matches either,  just playing golf and having fun.

Ill make a few pars, maybe a birdie, a handful of bogeys, lose a few balls in the Yucca, whatever.  Ill usually play harder or easier tees based on how well I'm playing.

What makes BN so special to ME is that everything about the place has this same lack of structure.  Be considerate and respectful, and other than that their are really no rules.

Everyone knows about the course.  I believe it's everything else, and how it all promotes a freedom to do what you choose, and spend your time on site however you want, that makes the place so special.

Brian

[RJ_Daley]

 Come to think about it,  I tend to read GCA books by going through and looking at the pictures and captions and reading chapter subjects that most interest me first.  Of course not novels, but yes definitely reference and subject instruction books are often not explored page 1 to the end.

[Matt MacIver]

Having played countless shotguns on my home course and thus starting at a mid-point, I find it great fun to break up a course I know all too well. I know the beginning, middle and end of the story - where I'll slice it, chunk it and top it. Maybe I like it because the course is too predictable, as is my game.

Ballyneal is on my short list of want to see courses one day and my hope is that all I want to do is rush off 18 to play #1 again.

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