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Matt Schoolfield

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I've had a question for some years now, and now that I'm on this forum, it might be easy to have answered. When writing about St Andrews, MacKenzie talks about something on the 14th (Long), presumably a hazard, called "Perdition". What is this hazard? I cannot seem to find anything about it.

Here is the relevant reference: 

Quote
Some years ago there were four of us playing four ball matches nearly every day for a month. We, according to our judgement, attempted to play this hole in four different ways. A played his tee shot well away to the left of the Beardies onto the low ground below the Elysian Fields, so as to place his second in a favorable position for his approach. B, who was a long driver, attempted to carry the Beardies with his drive, Hell with his second, and run up his third. C, who was a short but fairly accurate hitter, attempted to pinch the Beardies as near as he dare, and then played his second well away to the left, so as to play against the slope of the green for his third. D took what was apparently the straightforward route along the large broad plateau of the Elysian Fields, and eventually landed in Hell or Perdition every time; he invariably lost the hole.
-Alister MacKenzie, The Spirit of St Andrews (page 148 in the edition from Sleeping Bear Press)
As you can see "Perdition" does not appear in the adjoining illustration:

If anyone knows this, I would be quite grateful for that information, especially if there are any other references to it.

thanks,
Matt
« Last Edit: April 19, 2023, 08:58:15 PM by Matt Schoolfield »
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V. Kmetz

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I think "Perdition" was being used a co-amplifier for "Hell"...essentially that's what Perdition means...



Quote
Some years ago... and eventually landed in Hell or Perdition every time; he invariably lot the hole.
-Alister MacKenzie, The Spirit of St Andrews (page 148 in the edition from Sleeping Bear Press)

"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Matt Schoolfield

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V. Kmetz - Yes, I thought this might be the case, but the illustration does not show player "D" in the Hell Bunker. It shows player "D" end up in the waste area, where there is indeed another small bunker. So I'm left to wonder if the waste area is Perdition, or the small pot bunker just right of Hell, or even the bunker short-right of Hell (though these additional bunkers do not appear clearly in the illustration, if at all).
« Last Edit: April 18, 2023, 04:57:02 PM by Matt Schoolfield »
Building an encyclopedia of golf courses that anyone can edit: Golf Course Wiki
Some strong opinions on golf: Wigs on the Green
I really think golf culture should be more like beer culture than wine culture

Marty Bonnar

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Yeah, my thought would be Perdition isnt a bunker, but is all of that really rough ground around Hell, Kitchen, Benty, etc
Cheers,
F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Matt Schoolfield

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Marty Bonnar: I think you might be right, it's just that I don't know. I've even written to the World Golf Museum in St Andrews, but got no response. I was thinking about emailing Joshua Pettit at the Alister MacKenzie Institute (I know he just finished editing a book that is a really deep dive into MacKenzie's work), but I just haven't yet. Just trying to reach out here, since there are pretty well connected people that might be able to even reach the St Andrews membership or something.
Building an encyclopedia of golf courses that anyone can edit: Golf Course Wiki
Some strong opinions on golf: Wigs on the Green
I really think golf culture should be more like beer culture than wine culture

Phil Young

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Although perdition is a synonym for Hell, kit is also one for purgatory, a terrible place all its own but one that you can eventually get out of. Not sure if that is what is meant here, but it certainly would explain the difference between being in the Hell bunker or in a large waste area that might be easier to get out of, relatively speaking.

mike_beene

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I wonder if Presbyterian theology of the day would give any clue?

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