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Philip Caccamise

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Re: Best Private Course that's 'joinable'
« Reply #125 on: June 09, 2014, 04:39:13 PM »
Carl- from my limited understanding, yes.  :(

Joel Zuckerman

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Re: Best Private Course that's 'joinable'
« Reply #126 on: June 09, 2014, 04:41:39 PM »
Both Secession and Chechessee Creek Club would be options.... The former walking only with caddies, the latter's caddy requirement is only on weekends till noon time.

Both are within 40 minutes of the Savannah airport, which is a 40 minute flight from the Atlanta airport.

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Best Private Course that's 'joinable'
« Reply #127 on: June 09, 2014, 05:05:56 PM »
You can change The Golf Club and Camargo to... not purple.

In the same league as some of the others I didn't highlight?

Phil is right, at least with regards to Camargo. Several of the richest men in Cincinnati only wish that money was enough to buy their way in.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Buck Wolter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Private Course that's 'joinable'
« Reply #128 on: June 09, 2014, 05:32:58 PM »
I'll throw one out that I've never heard discussed here (though I'm sure it has) --King Kamehameha CC on Maui. Not only do you get a very interesting, awesomely conditioned mountain course about 15 minutes from Wailea but your clubhouse is a Frank Lloyd Wright designed building with views of the Ocean on both sides of the island. I'm sure Nanea would be awesome but King Kamehameha makes living on and playing golf in Hawaii an actual possibility for at least the next 9 percenters below. Plus it's not far from the Costco.


Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Michael Wharton-Palmer

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Re: Best Private Course that's 'joinable'
« Reply #129 on: June 09, 2014, 05:44:11 PM »
Love Joel's selection as well, two of my favourites that I enjoy every year.

Nigel Islam

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Re: Best Private Course that's 'joinable'
« Reply #130 on: June 09, 2014, 06:50:26 PM »
You can change The Golf Club and Camargo to... not purple.

In the same league as some of the others I didn't highlight?

Phil is right, at least with regards to Camargo. Several of the richest men in Cincinnati only wish that money was enough to buy their way in.

Camargo might be the hardest course to get on in Ohio unless of course you are good enough to try to qualify for the US Am.

Nigel Islam

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Private Course that's 'joinable'
« Reply #131 on: June 09, 2014, 06:56:56 PM »
Throwing this one out there, although it is not a Top 100 and is a Nicklaus design (Gary, not Jack). But is a tremendous deal and a heckuva golf course. After playing Victoria National graciously with a member the setting and vibe is very similar, though not as highly ranked ( and difficult!  :)

Dalhousie Golf Club is in Cape Girardeau MO and has bounced between the #1 and #3 best in the state by Golf Digest. If you're 40 our under its a $1000 initiation fee, and $3000 in annual dues. BUT $1500 of the dues is actually a club credit to use on lodging (they have very nice cottages), food, guest fees and even pro shop credit. Its remote with just a few houses.

This is their National membership and must live outside of 75 miles.

I think the over 40 is only about a $1000 more.


Are you saying Dalhousie is harder or easier than Victoria? What is the backstory on the building of this course/club? It's not exactly the Crossroads of America.

Mike Sweeney

Re: Best Private Course that's 'joinable'
« Reply #132 on: June 09, 2014, 07:02:42 PM »

But as you know, you cannot show up and play those clubs whenever you want - you are restricted on days/times.

Perhaps that works well for you, but I need to play in prime time, early on weekend mornings (as do many/most busy professionals).  I also like to belong to a true "club" that has a culture and where you get to know people over a period of years, not just a course at which I can show up and play golf.

But - to each their own.

Cheers,
Kevin

Kevin,

I have been posting here for over 10 years, have hosted or played with a few hundred people here including many raters. You really think I am a one trick pony :)

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Best Private Course that's 'joinable'
« Reply #133 on: June 09, 2014, 09:15:32 PM »

I think any club, even those with waiting lists, are imminently "joinable" if you know the right people.

Only a moron would make that claim.

Golfers seriously wanting to join PV, CPC, NGLA and others, all know the "right people"


Exactly and if the right members are their sponsors,
they will likely get in without much of a wait not counting how long the "process" takes.

This has to be one of the most moronic, conflicting statements ever made on this site.

So they'll get in "without much of a wait not counting how long the process takes ?  ?  ?


So if the process takes years, they'll get in "without much of a wait" ??  ?

You've skyrocketed beyond colossal moron status.

« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 12:15:32 AM by Patrick_Mucci »

Philip Caccamise

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Private Course that's 'joinable'
« Reply #134 on: June 09, 2014, 09:46:53 PM »
You can change The Golf Club and Camargo to... not purple.

In the same league as some of the others I didn't highlight?

Phil is right, at least with regards to Camargo. Several of the richest men in Cincinnati only wish that money was enough to buy their way in.

If Camargo was "easy" to get in, I'm virtually certain you and I would both be members. It's my favorite course in the area hands down.

Ryan Bass

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Private Course that's 'joinable'
« Reply #135 on: June 09, 2014, 09:56:32 PM »
Wolf Run Golf Club in Zionsville, IN is a heck of a club with a great vibe in the clubhouse and a very fine course as has been discussed on this forum on a number of occasions.  They are advertising initiation fees and dues on their website and I'd join as a national member (approx 3 hour drive for me) if my wife allowed.  I've yet to broach the subject.  Speaking of women, Wolf now allows female members.  However, when I inquired about that, the asst. pro smirked and said "Yeah there's one woman out here, but we didn't build women's tees and don't plan to."  I can report that the clubhouse smells of a manly yet pleasant combination of shoe polish, cigar smoke, popcorn and beer farts.

http://wolfrungc.com/membership.html

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Private Course that's 'joinable'
« Reply #136 on: June 09, 2014, 10:13:22 PM »
I've strongly wanted to avoid adding any "fuel-to-the-fire" to the this thread, but now feel compelled to do so.

Most everyone's assumption about Friar's Head being handily available to join is pure fallacy. Much, much more goes into it than simply showing up, asking or applying. Anyone who thinks otherwise is making a jackass of themselves. Same (squared) goes for the likes of Myopia Hunt or Plainfield or the "O" Club. 

Outside of simply asking ( for and in a PM) what information any existing member can address about a potential application, anymore is but further baseless speculation and insinuation and borderline conduct unbecoming of this board.

Is this the best GCA.com can reflect to the very large audience that lurks here? I certainly hope not.
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Ryan Hillenbrand

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Private Course that's 'joinable'
« Reply #137 on: June 09, 2014, 10:44:06 PM »
Throwing this one out there, although it is not a Top 100 and is a Nicklaus design (Gary, not Jack). But is a tremendous deal and a heckuva golf course. After playing Victoria National graciously with a member the setting and vibe is very similar, though not as highly ranked ( and difficult!  :)

Dalhousie Golf Club is in Cape Girardeau MO and has bounced between the #1 and #3 best in the state by Golf Digest. If you're 40 our under its a $1000 initiation fee, and $3000 in annual dues. BUT $1500 of the dues is actually a club credit to use on lodging (they have very nice cottages), food, guest fees and even pro shop credit. Its remote with just a few houses.

This is their National membership and must live outside of 75 miles.

I think the over 40 is only about a $1000 more.


Are you saying Dalhousie is harder or easier than Victoria? What is the backstory on the building of this course/club? It's not exactly the Crossroads of America.

Not sure exactly Nigel, I think it was a family that owned all the land and wanted to turn it into a high end club and housing development for the area but the bust ended that. I believe now most of the membership is national, many from st. Louis and memphis.

And it is easier than Victoria, though a stout test

Kevin_D

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Private Course that's 'joinable'
« Reply #138 on: June 09, 2014, 10:53:17 PM »

But as you know, you cannot show up and play those clubs whenever you want - you are restricted on days/times.

Perhaps that works well for you, but I need to play in prime time, early on weekend mornings (as do many/most busy professionals).  I also like to belong to a true "club" that has a culture and where you get to know people over a period of years, not just a course at which I can show up and play golf.

But - to each their own.

Cheers,
Kevin

Kevin,

I have been posting here for over 10 years, have hosted or played with a few hundred people here including many raters. You really think I am a one trick pony :)

Does the fact that you've been here 10 years mean I am not allowed to disagree with you, or point out when you are omitting important details about the access provided by recips from university or other non-golf clubs?

Tom Bacsanyi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Private Course that's 'joinable'
« Reply #139 on: June 09, 2014, 11:51:45 PM »
I went back and looked at the GCA unofficial top 100 list from a few years ago.  Based on anecdotal evidence (including in this thread), and assuming the club must be (a) private and (b) in the U.S., only the ones highlighted in green (in honor of Pat Mucci) seem reasonably easy to join--assuming, in some cases, you can make a very significant downstroke.  Purple is for places that might be reasonably easy to join but I have no idea if that's the case:

You should change Franklin Hills CC from purple to yellow or whatever color is opposite to purple.


Does FHCC let in gentiles or is it still 100% Jewish?  Place looks awesome from the road.
Don't play too much golf. Two rounds a day are plenty.

--Harry Vardon

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Best Private Course that's 'joinable'
« Reply #140 on: June 10, 2014, 12:11:29 AM »
I went back and looked at the GCA unofficial top 100 list from a few years ago.  Based on anecdotal evidence (including in this thread), and assuming the club must be (a) private and (b) in the U.S., only the ones highlighted in green (in honor of Pat Mucci) seem reasonably easy to join--assuming, in some cases, you can make a very significant downstroke.  Purple is for places that might be reasonably easy to join but I have no idea if that's the case:

You should change Franklin Hills CC from purple to yellow or whatever color is opposite to purple.


Does FHCC let in gentiles or is it still 100% Jewish?  Place looks awesome from the road.

I"ve been a guest, if that counts  ;D


Nigel Islam

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Private Course that's 'joinable'
« Reply #141 on: June 10, 2014, 12:17:46 AM »
Wolf Run Golf Club in Zionsville, IN is a heck of a club with a great vibe in the clubhouse and a very fine course as has been discussed on this forum on a number of occasions.  They are advertising initiation fees and dues on their website and I'd join as a national member (approx 3 hour drive for me) if my wife allowed.  I've yet to broach the subject.  Speaking of women, Wolf now allows female members.  However, when I inquired about that, the asst. pro smirked and said "Yeah there's one woman out here, but we didn't build women's tees and don't plan to."  I can report that the clubhouse smells of a manly yet pleasant combination of shoe polish, cigar smoke, popcorn and beer farts.

http://wolfrungc.com/membership.html

Indy has a few pretty good accessible private clubs

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Private Course that's 'joinable'
« Reply #142 on: June 10, 2014, 08:25:21 AM »

Most everyone's assumption about Friar's Head being handily available to join is pure fallacy. Much, much more goes into it than simply showing up, asking or applying. Anyone who thinks otherwise is making a jackass of themselves. Same (squared) goes for the likes of Myopia Hunt or Plainfield or the "O" Club. 


To the extent this is an attack on me for posting my take on the GCA Top 100, I'll bite.  As my post made clear, some of my annotations were drawn from the information posted on here (like Bob Huntley's about MPCC, or some of the posts about Friar's Head).  As my post also tried to make clear, I was attempting to highlight courses that were reasonably/relatively easy to join as compared to others on the list, many of which I didn't highlight.  At almost all decent private courses--including ones not on the list I posted, including the non-top 100 club I belong to--one can't become a member by "simply showing up, asking, or applying," and my annotations certainly weren't meant to suggest otherwise.  But it's also the case that it's a whole lot harder to become a member at many of the clubs on the list than others.       

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Private Course that's 'joinable'
« Reply #143 on: June 10, 2014, 10:55:23 AM »
Carl,

It was not an attack on you, per se.

What it was an indictment that anyone here, other than a particular club's member, has ANY worthwhile insight on what it takes to join a certain private club. Providing a list that suggests, insinuates, or even alludes to some judgement upon availability is speculative at best, and misleading at worst. It is, IMHO, exactly contributes to the dilution of respect for this site by those in the golf world outside the immediate sphere of architecture.
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Andrew Buck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Private Course that's 'joinable'
« Reply #144 on: June 10, 2014, 11:01:57 AM »
Reflecting on this thread, it's amazing how much context can play into the sentiments of threads on this board.

Growing up the son of a superintendent of a small town semi-private club, I was fortunate to grow up around the game of golf.  That said, growing up in a family that was reasonably below median income also meant an environment that was not versed in the nuance of certain situations, one of which is private club membership.  

It never occurred to me that the OP's post could be perceived to lack couth by many long time club members.  What also strikes me, is if the original request was "what are the best clubs known for national memberships", all the information he wanted would have likely surfaced, and the discussion would have naturally segmented into the Mucci elites and those where any golfer with means could likely at least get an appointment with a membership director.  The inclusion of the word "joinable" seems to cause much of the venom.

I can only assume that he was speaking of clubs with vibrant national programs, because most people would be familiar with local clubs and the best protocol.

Now, another question, just to avoid violating protocol in the future.  I know it is possible my family could be moving to one of a couple destinations in the south in the future.  I've often thought if that happened, I'd reach out here for suggestions on clubs, because this site tends to be represented everywhere.  Obviously, the preferred method is to try and be familiar with posters so it's easy to reach out to those in the area to gather information, but is there something inherently wrong with saying "I'm moving to city Y and looking for information on the clubs in that area"?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 11:15:46 AM by Andrew Buck »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Best Private Course that's 'joinable'
« Reply #145 on: June 10, 2014, 11:15:54 AM »
Reflecting on this thread, it's amazing how much context can play into the sentiments of threads on this board.

Growing up the son of a superintendent of a small town semi-private club, I was fortunate to grow up around the game of golf.  That said, growing up in a family that was reasonably below median income also meant an environment that was not versed in the nuance of certain situations, one of which is private club membership.  

While it never occurred to me that the OP's post could be perceived to lack couth by many long time club members.  What also strikes me, is if the original request was "what are the best clubs known for national memberships", all the information he wanted would have likely surfaced, and the discussion would have naturally segmented into the Mucci elites and those where any golfer with means could likely at least get an appointment with a membership director.  

Andrew,

I  assume that you have a job, what's your current occupation ?

I didn't inherit a dime from my folks and as such had to work to earn a living.
I also didn't win the lottery.

Did I work too hard ?
Did I sacrifice other facets of my life in pursuit of my work ?
Should I have been unprofessional and less successful to satisfy your envy ?


I can only assume that he was speaking of clubs with vibrant national programs, because most people would be familiar with local clubs and the best protocol.

That's your assumption, and not something gleened from reading his text.


Now, another question, just to avoid violating protocol in the future.  I know it is possible my family could be moving to one of a couple destinations in the south in the future.  I've often thought if that happened, I'd reach out here for suggestions on clubs, because this site tends to be represented everywhere.  Obviously, the preferred method is to try and be familiar with posters so it's easy to reach out to those in the area to gather information, but is there something inherently wrong with saying "I'm moving to city Y and looking for information on the clubs in that area"?

Wouldn't that depend upon whether or not you're an elitist ?


Andrew Buck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Private Course that's 'joinable'
« Reply #146 on: June 10, 2014, 11:19:38 AM »
Wolf Run Golf Club in Zionsville, IN is a heck of a club with a great vibe in the clubhouse and a very fine course as has been discussed on this forum on a number of occasions.  They are advertising initiation fees and dues on their website and I'd join as a national member (approx 3 hour drive for me) if my wife allowed.  I've yet to broach the subject.  Speaking of women, Wolf now allows female members.  However, when I inquired about that, the asst. pro smirked and said "Yeah there's one woman out here, but we didn't build women's tees and don't plan to."  I can report that the clubhouse smells of a manly yet pleasant combination of shoe polish, cigar smoke, popcorn and beer farts.

http://wolfrungc.com/membership.html

Wow, I loved Wolf Run (and it was the best bacon, egg and cheese sandwich of my life).  For a national member, after the $1K initiation fee, it's only $1k a year in dues, and guest fees of $100.  Knowing they have lodging on property, it would almost be a worthwhile venture to join for a simple 8 - 12 person 3 day golf trip a year.  If you could get two three day getaway's from Chicago area, that's a great deal. 

Andrew Buck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Private Course that's 'joinable'
« Reply #147 on: June 10, 2014, 11:47:10 AM »
Reflecting on this thread, it's amazing how much context can play into the sentiments of threads on this board.

Growing up the son of a superintendent of a small town semi-private club, I was fortunate to grow up around the game of golf.  That said, growing up in a family that was reasonably below median income also meant an environment that was not versed in the nuance of certain situations, one of which is private club membership.  

While it never occurred to me that the OP's post could be perceived to lack couth by many long time club members.  What also strikes me, is if the original request was "what are the best clubs known for national memberships", all the information he wanted would have likely surfaced, and the discussion would have naturally segmented into the Mucci elites and those where any golfer with means could likely at least get an appointment with a membership director.  

Andrew,

I  assume that you have a job, what's your current occupation ?

I didn't inherit a dime from my folks and as such had to work to earn a living.
I also didn't win the lottery.

Did I work too hard ?
Did I sacrifice other facets of my life in pursuit of my work ?
Should I have been unprofessional and less successful to satisfy your envy ?


I can only assume that he was speaking of clubs with vibrant national programs, because most people would be familiar with local clubs and the best protocol.

That's your assumption, and not something gleened from reading his text.


Now, another question, just to avoid violating protocol in the future.  I know it is possible my family could be moving to one of a couple destinations in the south in the future.  I've often thought if that happened, I'd reach out here for suggestions on clubs, because this site tends to be represented everywhere.  Obviously, the preferred method is to try and be familiar with posters so it's easy to reach out to those in the area to gather information, but is there something inherently wrong with saying "I'm moving to city Y and looking for information on the clubs in that area"?

Wouldn't that depend upon whether or not you're an elitist ?


Patrick,

The Mucci elites was not meant to be a reference to silver spoons or inheritance, but rather an acknowledgement that are a group of clubs that it takes more than a six figure initiation and desire to join.  It is easy to see that you have access to a number of very prestigious venues, and it's my assumption that you have gained access by simply developing friendships and means over decades of work and involvement with the game.  

Please don't mistake jealously with envy.  I am jealous of your access to wonderful venues, but I view jealousy as a motivational emotion, not a negative one.  It inspires me and I have many years to grow as a family man, professionally and within the game.  I don't harbor the slightest bit of envy toward your access, nor do I assume anyone with such access or wealth hasn't earned it.  I would not feel an ounce of joy to see you lose access.  

I will likely make some tongue in cheek remarks about posts you make that I find amusing, or feel can be viewed through different perspectives, however you strike me as someone who can handle the occasional jab just fine.  

As to my employment, I have been very fortunate in my professional career.  I do feel I have a talent and work ethic that has allowed me to capitalize on good fortune, but fortunate circumstances played a role as well.  I'm sure my professional and financial acumen pails to many, if not most on this fine site.  That said, I'm content to be able to currently provide for my family in a way that exceeds what I would have anticipated in my formative years, and that allows future dreams to seem within reasonable reach.  

As to the assumption on the original text, people are free to interpret anything as literally as they wish.  Whether it be a post on a message board, a political or religious document or a statement at a pub.  Personally, I find it helpful to try and determine what someone is trying to really ask, as opposed to being rigid with the words.  This method certainly can lead to false assumptions at times, so I understand why thers may want to test the literal words with fire.  There is a place for both, so carry on.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 01:42:04 PM by Andrew Buck »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Best Private Course that's 'joinable'
« Reply #148 on: June 10, 2014, 11:51:07 AM »

Don't those who join clubs as a "national" member consider the "cost to travel and lodge" as an expense ?

Take Sand Hills for example.

Is the initiation and dues the only cost involved in playing there ?

Or do you have to fly in from New York, Los Angeles or Houston and stay a few days.

Isn't transportation, food and lodging considered a cost ?

If it doesn't cost anything to travel a great distance, reside and be fed for a few days, maybe I should join more clubs.

Kevin_D

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Private Course that's 'joinable'
« Reply #149 on: June 10, 2014, 11:58:14 AM »
As the discussion seems to have moved to National memberships, I would offer up mine as a candidate: Stonewall

2 Doak courses, each with their own distinct character
1 hour outside Philadelphia - a pretty convenient drive from NYC to DC - and yet far enough removed that it has more of a rural than suburban feel
VERY affordable
Courses get limited play (even for resident partners, it is a 2nd club for many/most) so you can get out almost any time, with liberal guest policies
Probably the friendliest staff I have encountered in my entire golfing life

There are some requirements (eg, must belong to another club and not reside within 75 miles) which are spelled out on the club's web site - which is why I am comfortable sharing the info here.

http://www.stonewalllinks.com/pages/partnership.html

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