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Nigel Islam

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "A gentle handshake"
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2014, 11:35:10 PM »
The first at French Lick's Hill course is certainly one of the tougher par 4s on the course (5 and 18 are tougher and maybe 12).

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "A gentle handshake"
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2014, 12:36:48 AM »
#1 at We-Ko-Pa (Saguaro) is tough. 469 from the tips. Downhill drive to an angled fairway that falls away on the right. Second shot requires a carry over a wash, the only place this is required on the course. Green runs hard into bunker right, actually better to miss there than to miss in the short grass left. Tough par.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "A gentle handshake"
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2014, 04:49:21 AM »
I mentioned the 1st at TOC above.

I've just seen a Gary Player interview on TV where he said his first ever shot in The Open was played at TOC - and he snapped hooked it but was saved from going OB left by hitting one of the OB marker posts and coming back into play. So much for IB-F's shot many years later.

atb

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "A gentle handshake"
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2014, 08:15:24 PM »
Welcome to Ballyhack.
WW
huh??  First Drive is very disconcerting.
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "A gentle handshake"
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2014, 08:18:43 PM »
Tom D's & Team 1st at Riverfront is a wide open drive, only to be rudely shocked into a very prececise approach with no particularly easy pin locations .... no. 3 handicap hole
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "A gentle handshake"
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2014, 03:13:57 AM »
Birkdale's opener is tough as nails.  Saunton East's is a brutal hello.  Believe it or not, but Church Stretton's opener will quickly dispell ideas of a birdie fest based on a short yardage card.  Not necessarily tough, but Painswick's can literally kill folks with a weak heart.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies & Crystal Downs

David Ober

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "A gentle handshake"
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2014, 12:02:53 PM »
I greatly prefer gentle handshakes to start a round. Nothing too long, certainly. I don't like having to really swing at a driver on the first hole. As a working man, rarely do I get enough time to fully warm up prior to a round, and I prefer to bump a hybrid or a 4-wood down the fairway than having to really get into one right off the bat....

Keith Grande

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "A gentle handshake"
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2014, 12:14:01 PM »
Bethpage Red, 470 yard par 4, green located atop the hill alongside the Black's 18th tee.  A stout driver, 3-wood start.  A good bogie hole!

Brent Hutto

Re: "A gentle handshake"
« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2014, 12:26:38 PM »
The first hole at Pitlochry is 376 yards from the visitor tees I played and 384 from the medal tees.



You can't tell from the picture but the tee shot landing area (between the two sets of cross bunkers) is about 20-25 feet uphill from the tee and your ball lands on an upslope. Then uphill another 15-20 feet to the green. Prevailing wind is in your face or just a bit from the left. That's an OB fence line on the right. Green has a false front.

For a course that's under 5,700 yards from the tips (albeit Par 69) that opener plays as long and as hard as any hole on the course.

Guy Nicholson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "A gentle handshake"
« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2014, 12:55:10 PM »
Highlands Links has a tough opener. Uphill, usually straight into the wind, bush on both sides, no range.

http://www.highlandslinksgolf.com/golf/proto/highlandslinksgolf2/hole01/hole01.htm
https://www.flickr.com/photos/guynick/3816371374/in/set-72157610577915489

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "A gentle handshake"
« Reply #35 on: May 20, 2014, 02:19:58 PM »
In the Boston area...

Essex #1 is 430 par 4  (may not be a Ross original hole)
Salem CC #1 is 420 with a blind second shot
Charles River #1 is about 420 with a blind pond at the bottom of the hill
Weston #1 is about 430

Brae Burn, Wellesley, Winchester, Vesper are all short par fours...Woodland is a short 4 too but he may have inherited that one. Concord CC is a short 5.

So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Jim Sullivan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "A gentle handshake"
« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2014, 02:39:37 PM »
Pine Valley's first is one of the more difficult holes there...potential monster score on the opener.

Michael Felton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "A gentle handshake"
« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2014, 02:43:32 PM »
Pine Valley's first is one of the more difficult holes there...potential monster score on the opener.

My lasting memory of that place is that every hole had a potential monster score on it.

Michael Tamburrini

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "A gentle handshake"
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2014, 04:03:26 AM »
Wentworth... for years the 1st was the longest par 4 on the course (although I think the 15th is longer now). 

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "A gentle handshake"
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2014, 05:10:02 AM »
One lesser known course is the wonderful Huddersfield GC known locally as Fixby. I has many good holes on it including a brutal 1st hole. Also York GC known locally as Strensil has a tough opener. But up here in the Highlands I am really struggling to think of a tough opening hole.

Jon

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "A gentle handshake"
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2014, 06:46:18 AM »
 ;D :D



Depending on the audience , the architect should design accordingly .  You can take more liberties on a lightly played private with no revenue needs.  In our area Pine valley and Galloway would qualify for this .   Otherwise I prefer a gentle opener with a few good pin positions and a longer back tee that can be used for tournament play if desired.

The wider the better for the opening tee shot , let the player get moving and enjoy !

Patrick_Mucci

Re: "A gentle handshake"
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2014, 10:36:23 PM »
I wonder, when they were first designed and built, if there was any relationship between the difficulty of the first hole and the lack of a practice facility.

Some courses, like BFF and Wannomoisett have difficult openers, others are more benign.

It would be interesting to hear the architect tell us why they designed the first hole the way they did.

AWT seemed to favor par 5's as some of his starting holes.

Mark Steffey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "A gentle handshake"
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2014, 05:23:03 PM »
In the Boston area...

Essex #1 is 430 par 4  (may not be a Ross original hole)


Brad,

It is my understanding that the nine's as we play them now are flipped from Ross' time there.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "A gentle handshake"
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2014, 05:29:18 PM »
I wonder, when they were first designed and built, if there was any relationship between the difficulty of the first hole and the lack of a practice facility.

Some courses, like BFF and Wannomoisett have difficult openers, others are more benign.

It would be interesting to hear the architect tell us why they designed the first hole the way they did.

AWT seemed to favor par 5's as some of his starting holes.

Most of Mackenzie's California courses start with par 5s except for Cypress Point.  Of them - CPC, Pasatiempo, The Valley Club, Meadow Club - only the Meadow Club seems to have had space set aside for a formal driving range. 

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