[David Ober]

"As I look back fifty years to the time we drove horses and thought nothing of walking up from Tivoli Landing or down from Northwood, playing tennis or golf and then walking home, the motors of today seem out of place."

Note "fifty years" and "golf." Fifty years earlier than 1936 is 1886, and golf would have been present in that year. (Given that the 1937 book was to be a 50th-anniversary book of the club's  1884 founding, it's possible that the major content of the book was written before 1936; but there is clear evidence for 1936.) Without considering the disputed September 1886 course at the Dorset Field Club, would this new discovery establish the Edgewood Club of Tivoli as the oldest continually used U.S. golf club at its original location?

I would say that the quote above does not, in and of itself, mean that golf was played 50 years ago. The very same sentence could have been written by someone to mean that both of those sports were played in the early years of the club. If tennis had been played 50 years ago and golf had been played 49 or 48 or 47 years ago, then one may have written the exact same words, no?

[MCirba]

Tom Buggy,

Great research, as always, but I would be inclined to agree with David Ober.   It would have been much more convincing to hear a particular year of golf's origin at Tivoli mentioned, or even something less general than a round number (50 years) like "44 years back" or "48 years ago", or so on.   It reminds me in many ways of the Dorset story as their are certain anecdotal references recounted many years later and in the absence of contemporaneous records or accounts we have to dig deeper.   

[Jonathan Cummings]

I recently saw a shirt logo for Vesper outside out Boston that had 1875 on it.  I know that the current Ross course at Vesper is much younger than that but this has to be one of the oldest established US clubs(?) It was probably originally a social, polo of some other type of club.  Along the lines of this threads are there older US established "clubs?"

[Tim Martin]

I recently saw a shirt logo for Vesper outside out Boston that had 1875 on it.  I know that the current Ross course at Vesper is much younger than that but this has to be one of the oldest established US clubs(?) It was probably originally a social, polo of some other type of club.  Along the lines of this threads are there older US established "clubs?"

Jon-Their website makes reference to the Vesper Boat Club organized in 1875 primarily for the pursuit of rowing. The Merrimack River is on the perimeter on a few holes but doesn’t come into play. The opener is a sub 300 yard par four with a wild green and the course is another under the radar Ross effort at least outside of Massachusetts.

[MCirba]

My winter project this year, time permitting, is to continue my research into trying to prove that Dorset Field Club began golf in 1886 as is claimed that will hopefully inform an In My Opinion piece.   I need to visit the USGA Library soon for what I believe will be the last piece of the puzzle.   Thanks again!

I have a date with the USGA librarian in a few weeks.  Very excited as one might expect.

[Anthony Gray]

 Here is an other golf course list. Who’s played the first 100? Or what is left of the first 100? Or how many of the first 76 have you played?

[Rick Lane]

There seem to be two threads here, about the first 76 golf clubs in the US, and also which of those are still playing golf on the same property as they were founded?   Not sure anyone is keeping score on the latter, but it’s an interesting question.


At Brooklawn, founded in 1895 with golf, tennis, bowling, baseball, archery, shooting and a casino, they are still playing golf in the same spot.  The original 9 hole course was on land currently occupied by the 11th thru 16th holes, plus a bit of the current first hole.  There are two spots where you can actually see parts of that 9:  on the current 11th hole, there exists the original 1895 tee for their 4th hole, and also on today’s 11th hole, you can see the original 5th convex green shape off in the rough.   We still have no idea who was part of laying out the course, we just say it was “members”.  Notably the first “pro and greenskeeper” was George Morris’s grandson Tom, but we have no idea if he helped lay it out.


The course was expanded in 1911 to 18 holes.  Again, we aren’t sure by who, but the Pro at the time was George Sparling, who arrived in 1908.  Tillinghast was hired in 1929 to build what is there today.

[MCirba]

I expect to have an IMO on the history of Dorset Field Club in Ran Morrissett's hands by the end of the week.

No spoiler alerts, but it's going to be really, really good!   

[Tim Martin]

I expect to have an IMO on the history of Dorset Field Club in Ran Morrissett's hands by the end of the week.

No spoiler alerts, but it's going to be really, really good!   

Mike-I’ll look forward to reading the history. I thought of the 16th hole on the concurrent thread about dog legs of more than ninety degrees. Though they interspersed the first nine with the new holes it’s very easy to pick out the originals.

[MCirba]

Tim,


Yes.  Much too easy. 


Thanks.

[Tom Buggy]

Tom Buggy,

Great research, as always, but I would be inclined to agree with David Ober.   It would have been much more convincing to hear a particular year of golf's origin at Tivoli mentioned, or even something less general than a round number (50 years) like "44 years back" or "48 years ago", or so on.   It reminds me in many ways of the Dorset story as their are certain anecdotal references recounted many years later and in the absence of contemporaneous records or accounts we have to dig deeper.

Mike and David,
I agree that contemporaneous records/accounts are needed to "seal the deal." However, the cited quote is clearly from a 50th anniversary history book completed during 1936 -- thus the logic of "as I look back 50 years" as a reference to AT LEAST 1886. We know that the first tennis court was completed during the club's founding year of 1884, and that the clubhouse was completed by  spring of 1885. We also know from other information that the Livingston family members at the Northwood Estate were major players in the establishment of golf. Thus, I believe it is highly likely that golf was present at least by 1886. Nonetheless, the search for date-specific contemporaneous confirmation continues.

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