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Sven Nilsen

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Re: Florida in 1928
« Reply #50 on: February 16, 2014, 07:41:02 PM »
Jim:

That's the Eglin AFB course, which used to be Valparaiso CC (also known as Chicago CC of Valparaiso).  Design was by Langford & Moreau in 1927.

The Evening Independent - July 26, 1926:


The Evening Independent - Nov. 12, 1927:


The one in Valparaiso I don't have a ton of info on is El Conquistador CC, which was supposedly laid out by George O'Neil in 1918.

Sven

« Last Edit: March 13, 2014, 10:25:36 PM by Sven Nilsen »
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Jim_Kennedy

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Re: Florida in 1928
« Reply #51 on: February 16, 2014, 07:57:07 PM »
« Last Edit: February 16, 2014, 08:01:01 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
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Bill_McBride

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Re: Florida in 1928
« Reply #52 on: February 16, 2014, 09:54:41 PM »
Quote from: Sven Nilsen on February 16, 2014, 12:40:13 PM
Quote from: Nigel Islam on February 13, 2014, 09:10:03 PM
Quote from: Bill_McBride on February 13, 2014, 07:02:48 PM
Pensacola Country Club is on the list.  Founded in 1902, it's the oldest private club in the state.   Members laid out the first nine.  A second nine was built in 1925 and integrated with a remodeled first nine.  When I joined in 1995, I thought the course might have been designed by Donald Ross as the greens were typical bumped up smallish greens best approached from the proper angles.  Ross was actually traveling back and forth between Jacksonville and Mobile, AL, through Pensacola while he designed the CC of Mobile.   Brad Klein, Ross expert historian, says no record.  I suspect that Pensacola members may have taken the 50-mile train ride to Mobile to observe what Ross had done there, and emulated the concepts back at home. 

It's all moot today as we have a new course built by Jerry Pate and lead designer after Hurricane Ivan in 2004.  The course is more in the Raynor style, with flat bottom grass faced bunkers and a Reverse Redan and a stout Cape tee shot with Punchbowl green. 

For more on the new PCC, you can check out my profile in the "In My Opinion" section. 

Bill, is it possible Langford could have been involved with PCC since he did work in Niceville? I guess for that matter Ross did work in Panama City though.

There's a strong link between Langford and the Pensacola area that I haven't seen mentioned before.  Ellis Knowles was the intercollegiate champion during his time at Yale (he graduated in 1907), and would have overlapped with Langford.  Knowles made Pensacola CC his home course for a number of years.


First time I've ever heard that name.   I googled him and got one hit, a Yale website.  Sounds like he was quite a player, won 8 club championships at Pensacola, one at Yale (as a senior in 1907), one at Pine Valley, and 16! at Apawamis in Rye NY where he had a shipping business.  He and his brother also owned Pensacola Maritime Corp so he was apparently back and forth between New York and Pensacola. 
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Bill_McBride

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Re: Florida in 1928
« Reply #53 on: February 16, 2014, 09:57:03 PM »
Sven, see www.pensacolacountryclub.com for more history about the Knowles brothers and the early days of PCC. 
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Mike_Young

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Re: Florida in 1928
« Reply #54 on: February 16, 2014, 10:23:27 PM »
and Indian Creek was just a mere two or three acres at the time ;D
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Sven Nilsen

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Re: Florida in 1928
« Reply #55 on: February 16, 2014, 11:32:37 PM »
Wanted to followup on the portion of the March 25, 1925 Palm Beach Daily News article that discussed West Palm Beach CC.  That article noted the course "was designed by Langford, but in the construction his plans were not carried out."

Copied below is a January, 1922 article from Golfer's Magazine that goes into a good bit of detail about the construction of WPB.  This article supports that idea that it was Langford's ideas that found there way onto the ground, and notes that he personally supervised the construction process.  Perhaps there was an initial plan that was altered along the way, but from the sounds of it the result was all his.



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"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Florida in 1928
« Reply #56 on: February 17, 2014, 05:37:58 PM »
Here's an article from the December 17, 1928 edition of The Miami News discussing golf in Fort Lauderdale (thanks to Mr. Kennedy for passing this on).

The article notes the involvement of J.A. Roseman, who has a number of design credits around Chicago and elsewhere in the Midwest.  

From the sounds of the article, the West Side course replaced the South Side course as Fort Lauderdale's public golf option as part of a land deal.  


« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 05:49:03 PM by Sven Nilsen »
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"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Florida in 1928
« Reply #57 on: February 17, 2014, 05:51:39 PM »
Also from Jim, here's an article discussing Cedar Hill GC which is one of the courses noted in the mysteries list above (The Palm Beach Post - Feb. 25, 1931).  Along with Timuquana and Florida CC, Cedar Hill hosted the 1931 Florida Open.

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"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Florida in 1928
« Reply #58 on: February 20, 2014, 10:42:50 PM »
A couple of articles on some of the mystery courses noted earlier in the thread (pretty much all of these were tracked down by Jim Kennedy).

First, an article from the Palm Beach Daily News (Dec. 27, 1934) on Belvedere GC, which unfortunately doesn't provide much information on the origins of the course:

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"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Florida in 1928
« Reply #59 on: February 20, 2014, 10:45:23 PM »
Next, an ad for Plant City from the Nov. 23, 1925 St. Petersburg Times:

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"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Florida in 1928
« Reply #60 on: February 20, 2014, 11:42:55 PM »
An ad for Olympia:

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"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Florida in 1928
« Reply #61 on: February 21, 2014, 12:38:25 AM »
Here's a March 11, 1917 article from The Evening Independent discussing the construction of the Davista and Brightwater links (two separate courses).  The article notes that both courses were designed by J. Franklin Meehan.  The Davista links referred to in the article was the Jungle Club, which is covered in the second article in this post (same paper, dated Feb. 13, 1915) noting that Meehan worked with Tillinghast on its design and construction.  Tillinghast and Meehan had worked together before, including at Shawnee.  Perhaps Meehan was merely constructing a Tillie design at Davista, but the article makes it sound like a collaboration.






« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 12:40:39 AM by Sven Nilsen »
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"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Florida in 1928
« Reply #62 on: February 22, 2014, 01:49:07 PM »
Phil Young sent me a wealth of information on the Jungle Club, with the primary take away being that Tillinghast was responsible for the design and layout and Meehan was in charge of construction.

The June 1915 issue of The American Golfer contained the following:

"Mr. A. W. Tillinghast has departed for Florida where he will put in a month in the construction of the new eighteen holes course at Davista, which he planned last March.  For nearly a year workmen have been busily engaged in felling trees and removing palmetto roots."

The course was sold as part of a bankruptcy sale to Farragut Academy in the 1940's.
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"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Rees Milikin

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Re: Florida in 1928
« Reply #63 on: February 22, 2014, 01:53:33 PM »
Sven have you found any information regarding the 1926 9 hole course in Live Oak, FL that is known as Suwanee Country Club?  I have been digging, but haven't been able to find anything.
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Sven Nilsen

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Re: Florida in 1928
« Reply #64 on: February 22, 2014, 02:15:25 PM »
Rees:

I have not found anything on the origins of Live Oak. 

Sven
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"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Florida in 1928
« Reply #65 on: February 22, 2014, 02:36:53 PM »
One other course from the mystery list, Golf Park in Miami, was built around 1926.

Here's an 1925 ad from the Nov. 16, 1925 edition of The Miami News heralding the development of the area:




Here a number of articles discussing what happened to the course over the years.

A June 21, 1935 The Miami News - discussing the purchase of the club by the Miami Cabana and Golf Club, who had also purchased Indian Creek Island:

http://


A quick blurb from the April 8, 1945 edition of the same paper discussing the potential for reclamation:



And finally, a reminiscent piece from May 28, 1949 again from The Miami News:


« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 02:39:00 PM by Sven Nilsen »
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"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: Florida in 1928
« Reply #66 on: February 22, 2014, 02:38:17 PM »
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Sven Nilsen

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Re: Florida in 1928
« Reply #67 on: February 22, 2014, 02:44:31 PM »
Jim:

Thanks for adding those in.

Here are two more pieces on Key Largo.  I'm not sure if the course was ever opened, as I have seen no record of its existence.  From the sounds of it, they did get pretty far into the construction process.

From The Miami News, Jan. 12, 1925:



And from later in the year, The Miami News, Nov., 9, 1925:



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"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Florida in 1928
« Reply #68 on: February 22, 2014, 02:50:22 PM »
Here's an updated version of the "mystery list," with courses noted above removed:

Scenic Highlands GC (Avon Park) - 9 holes, 3,100 yards
Webber College (Babson Park)
Captiva Hotel GC (Captiva)
Chipley CC (Chipley) - 2,800 yards
Ponce de Leon Springs GC or Ponce Spring GC (De Leon Springs) - 9 holes, 3,050 yards
Enterprise Municpal GC (Enterprise) - 9 holes, 3,000 yards
Green Ball GC (Fernandina) - 9 holes
West Fort Myers Club (Fort Myers) - 9 holes
Fort Pierce Municipal GC (Fort Pierce) - 3,090 yards
Avalon CC (Howey) - 7,000 yards
Inverness CC (Inverness) - 9 holes, 3,215 yards
Jacksonville Beach CC (Jacksonville Beach) - 3,142 yards
Palmetto GC (Kissimmee) - 3,020 yards
Colonial GC (Kissimmee) - 3,101 yards
Lakeview CC (Lake City) - 9 holes, 3,100 yards
Leesburg Municipal GC (Leesburg) - 9 holes, 3,300 yards
St. Andrews Bay GC (Lynnhaven/Panama City) - 18 holes, 6,710 yards
Putnam County G&CC (Palatka) - 9 holes, 2,500 yards
Bunkers Cove CC (Panama City) - 3,803 yards
Siesta Key GC (Sarasota) - 9 holes, 3,100 yards
Lake Sebring G&CC (Sebring) - 9 holes, 3,500 yards
Airport GC (Tampa) - 3,105 yards
Indian River GC (Titusville) - 9 holes, 3,500 yards
Lake Avalon CC (Winter Garden) - 6,558 yards
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"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Florida in 1928
« Reply #69 on: February 22, 2014, 03:57:24 PM »
Copied below is a Dec. 19, 1926 article from The Miami News, discussing the development of a new golf course in Miami.  The course is called South Florida Golf and Country Club, but the title of the article referes to it as "Golf Park."  This course, as noted in the article, appears to have been designed by Col. Tippett of Montauk Downs and Miami Beach Golf Club - La Gorce Course fame.

I'm not sure if Golf Park and South Florida were one and the same or not.  The Annual Guides from that era note both courses, with Leo Diegel and Gene Sarazen named as the pros at South Florida and Mike Brady for Golf Park.  The costs of the club house for Golf Park noted in one of the articles posted above make it sound like this could have been the same project.

In any case, Golf Park became Westview CC, and today is known as Miami National.

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"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Florida in 1928
« Reply #70 on: February 23, 2014, 01:12:25 PM »
A couple of more articles on the Jungle Club.

From the Feb. 27, 1915 edition of The Evening Independent, discussing preliminary plans and including some statements by Meehan on the patience required if they were to produce the best course in the South:




The second article is from the same paper a few months later (April 19, 1915), and includes thoughts on using different types of grass for the fairways and greens:

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"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Florida in 1928
« Reply #71 on: February 23, 2014, 01:18:33 PM »
Here's a quick blurb from The Palm Beach Post (Aug. 21, 1925) discussing Pinecrest CC (aka Pine Crest Lakes Clubs).  Pinecrest is attributed to Ross in 1926, but from the article it appears that Bertie Way was the foreman for the project.  Way, the brother of Ernest Way (who also worked with Ross), was a long time pro in the Ohio area, with a few design credits to his name.

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"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Florida in 1928
« Reply #72 on: February 23, 2014, 01:45:38 PM »
I've touched a bit on the development of golf in Miami here and in the Miami Beach thread: 

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,57840.0.html

Before Carl Fisher started turning Miami Beach into a resort destination reached by the automobile, Henry Flagler had developed the Florida East Coast Railway making Miami a getaway spot for those who could reach it via the rails.  It is impossible to discuss the development of golf in Florida without mentioning Flagler.  His trains ran the length of Florida, eventually reaching as far as Key West.  Along the way, Flagler built hotels, developed towns and used newly constructed golf courses as part of the draw to make Florida a winter destination.

Back in Post #47 I noted a list of courses in existence around 1908.  Many of those noted were in the locations developed by Flagler, as highlighted on this advertisement for the Florida East Coast Railway:

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"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Florida in 1928
« Reply #73 on: February 23, 2014, 03:06:10 PM »
For a while, Miami was the terminus of Flagler's railway.  He built the Royal Palm Hotel in 1897, and a six hole golf course was added to the grounds for the entertainment of its guests.  Sources have Flagler opening the Miami CC (or the Miami Golf Links) in 1898, located a short distance from the hotel. 

I am a bit confused as to the history of the two courses.  One of the earliest newspaper accounts discusses plans to ready the Royal Palm course for the season, but doesn't note if this was the new course or the original course built by the hotel (The Miami News - Oct. 9, 1908):



Later reports note the Miami CC course being expanded from 9 to 18 holes by Donald Ross (The Miami News - Nov. 29, 1921):




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"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Florida in 1928
« Reply #74 on: February 23, 2014, 03:12:39 PM »
Here are a few old postcards and photos of the Royal Palm Golf Course and of the hotel itself:

The Royal Palm Hotel:


Photo from 1899 (of the course adjacent to the hotel):

Postcard depicting the "Clock Putting Green" (not sure if this is the hotel or the Miami CC course):

A 1905 photo of the same location:


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"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross
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