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David_Tepper

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Renovation Work At the Presidio, San Francisco
« on: December 13, 2013, 06:15:13 PM »
I played the Presidio this past Sunday for the first time in over a year. The course is in the gradual process of having their bunkers re-done. The design work is being done by Suny, Zokol amd the shaping work is being handled by the super at the Presidio. Less than half the holes have gotten their face-lift so far. I thought the new look was pretty good.

Here are some comments from Armen Suny:

http://aggca.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-presidio-golf-course-renovation.html

« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 12:24:33 PM by David_Tepper »

Andy Stamm

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Re: Renovation Work At The Presidio, San Francisco
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2013, 08:02:17 PM »
The 4th looks much better. How was the green? They have had some trouble maintaining good turf on 4 because of all the shade.

David_Tepper

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Re: Renovation Work At The Presidio, San Francisco
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2013, 09:16:40 PM »
Andy S. -

Yes, that green has always struggled because it sits in a hollow surrounded by some tall trees and does not get enough sunlight. It also takes a beating from absorbing so many wedge shots hit from a well-elevated tee. That is one green that could benefit from having a fan alongside it. ;)

We have had some very cold weather (for San Francisco!) lately and there have been multiple frost delays over the past 7-10 days. Given all that, I thought the green was in decent shape. I am playing the course this Sunday and will take a closer look.

DT

    

Greg Chambers

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Re: Renovation Work At The Presidio, San Francisco
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2013, 10:08:18 PM »
The bunkering in that picture looks absolutely terrible.  Talk about forcing a feature into a landscape.  Not to mention the fact that it looks like a maintenance nightmare!  I hope all the new bunkering doesn't end up looking that bad...
"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Renovation Work At The Presidio, San Francisco
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2013, 10:26:53 PM »
"Not to mention the fact that it looks like a maintenance nightmare!"

Greg C -

You are welcome to your opinion regarding the look of the bunkers. However, given that the fellow who is the head greenskeeper is also the guy who shaped the bunkers, I am guessing he is comfortable maintaining the bunkers will not be a "nightmare" for him and his staff.

DT

Alex Miller

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Re: Renovation Work At The Presidio, San Francisco
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2013, 10:48:32 PM »
Concept picture looks really good.

Bill_McBride

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Re: Renovation Work At The Presidio, San Francisco
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2013, 11:01:43 PM »
The proposed 4th is how I remember that hole.  Except there were bunkers on the left too.  Basically, if you weren't on the dance floor you were in the sand.  

How many recognize the hole on Zokol's website as the 13th at Sagebrush?

Greg Chambers

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Re: Renovation Work At The Presidio, San Francisco
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2013, 11:21:52 PM »
David, it's one thing to build something bold and complex, it's another thing entirely to maintain for years to come.  Presidio is a very busy public course, is it not?
"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.

Kyle Henderson

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Re: Renovation Work At The Presidio, San Francisco
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2013, 11:49:01 PM »
Before (bunkers are unattractive and devoid of strategic interest)


After (sort of a MacKenzie mockup?)


My rendering of a slightly less extravagant renovation. I'd shave the bank on the right so players could feed shots on between the bunkers.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 12:01:57 AM by Kyle Henderson »
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Niall C

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Re: Renovation Work At The Presidio, San Francisco
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2013, 09:04:27 AM »
Kyle

Nice bit of photo shopping. I much prefer your version although not sure how much feeding into the green would go on considering the length of hole, the fact that it plays downhill and the green looks as though it slopes down the way from back to front.Your version also has the great benefit of offering ease of access to the putting surface. Lastly, prefer the slightly less fussy look of your back right bunker compared to the Sony Zukol version.

Niall

David_Tepper

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Re: Renovation Work At The Presidio, San Francisco
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2013, 11:10:45 AM »
Bill M. -

For an number of years (the early 1990's if I recall correctly), that green, which was much smaller at the time, was surrounded by one circular "donut" bunker. It was a lame attempt to create a "signature hole."

Greg C. -

Yes the Presidio is a public course and it does get a lot of play. However, as I stated above, the current head greenskeeper was very involved with the design/creation of these bunkers. It is hard to imagine any head greenskeeper would encourage building a bunker that would cause maintenance problems for his crew.

DT  

Kyle Henderson

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Re: Renovation Work At The Presidio, San Francisco
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2013, 04:37:23 PM »
Kyle

Nice bit of photo shopping. I much prefer your version although not sure how much feeding into the green would go on considering the length of hole, the fact that it plays downhill and the green looks as though it slopes down the way from back to front.Your version also has the great benefit of offering ease of access to the putting surface. Lastly, prefer the slightly less fussy look of your back right bunker compared to the Sony Zukol version.

Niall

Thanks, Niall. I agree the ground game isn't really at play with a wedge but I'd hate to see players hacking out of cabbage from that slope or slipping in muddy rough when a firm, shaved bank could be afforded.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 05:12:11 PM by Kyle Henderson »
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Greg Chambers

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Re: Renovation Work At the Presidio, San Francisco
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2013, 08:44:55 PM »
David,

It wouldn't be the first time that somebody built something they wish they wouldn't have...time will tell...
"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Renovation Work At The Presidio, San Francisco
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2013, 12:51:34 PM »
Kyle

Nice bit of photo shopping. I much prefer your version although not sure how much feeding into the green would go on considering the length of hole, the fact that it plays downhill and the green looks as though it slopes down the way from back to front.Your version also has the great benefit of offering ease of access to the putting surface. Lastly, prefer the slightly less fussy look of your back right bunker compared to the Sony Zukol version.

Niall

Thanks, Niall. I agree the ground game isn't really at play with a wedge but I'd hate to see players hacking out of cabbage from that slope or slipping in muddy rough when a firm, shaved bank could be afforded.

Kyle

I was thinking further on why I prefer your version and I think the reason is the suggestion of the diagonal in your design. That might be more perception than reality but straight away it makes the golfer think about matching line with length.

Niall

Jon Wiggett

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Re: Renovation Work At the Presidio, San Francisco
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2013, 12:58:06 PM »


Looks like a nice course David. Did you enjoy the game on Sunday? Unseasonably warm up here where I played at Tain in 14C (57F) despite the stiff breeze.

Jon

Mark Kiely

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Re: Renovation Work At the Presidio, San Francisco
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2023, 05:18:46 PM »
Any recent takes on Presidio?


There's another thread that's older than this with one newer post, but this one felt more appropriate to bump. I'm planning to be in the Bay Area mid-June and have wanted to play Presidio since it opened to the public (although I know the opinions about it here vary pretty wildly).


Thanks!
My golf course photo albums on Flickr: https://goo.gl/dWPF9z

Matt_Cohn

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Re: Renovation Work At the Presidio, San Francisco
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2023, 05:23:33 PM »
Any recent takes on Presidio?


There's another thread that's older than this with one newer post, but this one felt more appropriate to bump. I'm planning to be in the Bay Area mid-June and have wanted to play Presidio since it opened to the public (although I know the opinions about it here vary pretty wildly).


Thanks!


Im actually here right now, just got done hitting a bucket of balls. Its pretty good and Probably similar condition to Harding (which is to say theyre both fine, not spectacular). Other than the potential weather, no reason not to play Presidio. Pack your warmest stuff just in case. 


« Last Edit: May 27, 2023, 06:02:40 PM by Matt_Cohn »

Kevin_Reilly

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Re: Renovation Work At the Presidio, San Francisco
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2023, 05:26:18 PM »
Presidio is enjoyable to play.  Nothing great/nothing bad.  I'd choose it over TPC Harding 10-1.


Fun to think about its prior history as an army course/private club as you play it.


If in the City, play the nine hole Gleneagles also.  Take an uber to the course so you can enjoy the 10th hole (aka 19th hole) which is very cool.
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

MCirba

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Re: Renovation Work At the Presidio, San Francisco
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2023, 05:42:55 PM »
As someone who will hopefully visit San Francisco this fall, do most locals prefer Presidio over Harding and if so, is it architecture, maintenance, playability or is it cost?  Thanks!
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Matt Schoolfield

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Re: Renovation Work At the Presidio, San Francisco
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2023, 05:52:44 PM »
I've mapped and annotated every public course in SF on the wiki... the link should be below in my signature. 

My thoughts are Presidio is fun if you like uphill par 4s (8/10 play uphill). Do not play there after it rains as it tends to be the soggiest course in the city. The finishing hole at Presidio, I think, is the most beautiful finishing hole I've played in the area.

TPC Harding Park is a crucible. It is a course for people looking to test themselves. A word of caution, that tuesday/thursday they play the back 9 first and you will not feel the struggle of playing the long 18th when you're most exhausted.

Kevin is right that Gleneagles is an underrated architectural gem (full disclosure, I'm a member there), but if you care at all about high-end maintenance, it won't be for you. The greens are fine, but the club generally plays preferred lies because it can often be a crap shoot with the turf.

I'm more of a links guy, and I can't repeat enough how much I like the unfinished Corica: North Course just outside of town. To me it's the best course in the Bay Area, and a must for anyone who likes links golf, if you can play it on a windy day.

Just my thoughts.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2023, 05:55:24 PM by Matt Schoolfield »
Building an encyclopedia of golf courses that anyone can edit: Golf Course Wiki
Some strong opinions on golf: Wigs on the Green
I really think golf culture should be more like beer culture than wine culture

Kalen Braley

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Re: Renovation Work At the Presidio, San Francisco
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2023, 06:03:10 PM »
Matt,

That's an interesting claim depending on what you consider is "regional" to San Francisco. 

Off the top of my head I'd say the 18th at Harding Park or HMB, and I'd throw in Lake Chabot too. And this doesn't even include what is found in the Monterey Peninsula area....




Matt Schoolfield

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Re: Renovation Work At the Presidio, San Francisco
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2023, 06:14:02 PM »
Matt,

That's an interesting claim depending on what you consider is "regional" to San Francisco. 

Off the top of my head I'd say the 18th at Harding Park or HMB, and I'd throw in Lake Chabot too. And this doesn't even include what is found in the Monterey Peninsula area....
I think the view of the parking lot sort of ruins the beauty of the 18th at Harding for me. This might be partly due to the fact that the parking lot is also entirely in play for me when my driver isn't behaving itself.

The 18th at Lake Chabot could have a novel written about it. It's completely insane, and I love it. The entire course is worth playing just because of how totally bizarre of a counter-intuitive take on 'what golf should be' that it has. Completely irreverent while also being genuinely fun.

That said, I think Presidio's 18th, with its intentionally rowed treeline, framing the Congregation Emanu-El dome, and view of the Mt Sutro and Sutro tower in the background are just perfect for me.

Ironically, I'd actually argue that the second most beautiful finisher in SF is Lincoln, but few players have the wherewithal to look left and take in the full view of the city, because the course generally draws your attention to the right side while playing.

Full disclosure, I haven't played Half Moon Bay on account that it's a bit outside of my comfortable price range.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2023, 06:19:18 PM by Matt Schoolfield »
Building an encyclopedia of golf courses that anyone can edit: Golf Course Wiki
Some strong opinions on golf: Wigs on the Green
I really think golf culture should be more like beer culture than wine culture

Matt_Cohn

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Re: Renovation Work At the Presidio, San Francisco
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2023, 06:20:03 PM »
TPC Harding Park is a crucible. It is a course for people looking to test themselves. A word of caution, that tuesday/thursday they play the back 9 first and you will not feel the struggle of playing the long 18th when you're most exhausted.


I don't see this at all. From the blues at 6,845 yards, Harding is rated 72.9/126. From the whites at 6,405 it's rated 70.5/121. It's pretty flat overall, and the greens are modestly sloped and typically not quick. Obviously it's harder if you get a cold and windy day, but otherwise I wouldn't think of it as either especially hard or exhausting. Presidio is more exacting and a much hillier walk; it's just way shorter from the tips.


There's not a consensus favorite amongst locals. Presidio has a good amount of quirk that sometimes pays off and sometimes doesn't. Harding is a more typical tournament course, with room off most tees and a lot of good-but-not great holes.

Kalen Braley

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Re: Renovation Work At the Presidio, San Francisco
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2023, 06:24:57 PM »
Well played Matt,

As a Bay Area native (who hasn't lived there in nearly 20 years now) I miss the geographical diversity found there in its various forms. Its been ages since I've played the two courses in Alameda but sounds like I need to get a round at the South course on my next visit.

P.S.  I cut my golfing teeth primarily on Tony Lema in San Leandro.  Its nothing to write home about as you know, but has some amazing views out there.  And certainly agreed on Lake Chabot, even if it should also be avoided during the soggy winter months..

Matt Schoolfield

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Re: Renovation Work At the Presidio, San Francisco
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2023, 06:29:34 PM »
I don't see this at all. From the blues at 6,845 yards, Harding is rated 72.9/126. From the whites at 6,405 it's rated 70.5/121.
That's fair. The main difference for me, as a higher handicapper, is that at Presidio I'm playing hybrid from the rough, whereas at Harding I'm playing an 8 iron at best. So for me, Harding plays quite a bit longer than it says on the card. Presidio does top the public courses on official slope. 
Building an encyclopedia of golf courses that anyone can edit: Golf Course Wiki
Some strong opinions on golf: Wigs on the Green
I really think golf culture should be more like beer culture than wine culture

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