Questions about the New Confidential Guide

[Jud_T]

As resident buttboy and a kid who used to tabulate baseball statistics in a notebook from the sunday paper before every stat available to man was on an app, I can't wait for the new Confidential Guides to come out.  For those familiar with the original, and those simply curious, what are you most intrigued to see in the book?  And while we know that certain courses may move up a notch due to sensitive restorations and tree clearing programs, what have the intervening years done to Tom's perspective on certain courses, or his preferences?  Furthermore, what is the elusive new methodology that will allow him to rank all his own and his contemporaries' courses yet  maintain his previously iconoclastic views without having him hung in effigy throughout the land?  List your own thoughts and questions, even if Tom is unwilling to answer them until the book is published.  Here's my starter list:

1.  Will the Old Course go down to a 9 from a 10 due to the recent Hawtree work?
2.  Will University of Michigan go from a 3 to a 5?
3.  How will he rate the work of Mike Strantz?
4.  Which will be higher, Lost Dunes or Old Mac?
5.  Will Shadow Creek go from a 9 to an 8 as it's novelty and audacity has worn off?
6.  Will Lawsonia finally get the 7 it deserves?
7.  What hidden gems have been uncovered since the last guide?
8.  Will Desert Highlands still be an 8?
9.  How will Kingsley be rated and reviewed?
10.  How will he address the overweening conditioning and cost that has burdened the game in the intervening years?
11.  How will he handle Medinah #3, Dismal 1 and Forest Dunes?
12.  What courses will make the biggest move up and the biggest move down?
13.  How many Langfords has he visited or revisited?
14.  How does the 2013 perspective color his view of Pete Dye, Jack Nicklaus, Tom Fazio and RTJ?
15.  What does he make of Sean Arble's favorites?
16. How will be rate Trump Aberdeen?

Talk amongst yourselves...

[PCCraig]

When is it being released?

[Jud_T]

Pat,

I think it's a series of books based on region with the first installment (GB&I?) possibly coming out next summer.

[John Kavanaugh]

Will the 31 Flavors be replaced with Ben & Jerry's style puns?

[Sean_A]

1.  Will the Old Course go down to a 9 from a 10 due to the recent Hawtree work? NO
2.  Will University of Michigan go from a 3 to a 5? NO
3.  How will he rate the work of Mike Strantz? Doak will take the midddle road - think 5-6 range
4.  Which will be higher, Lost Dunes or Old Mac?  Not a clue
5.  Will Shadow Creek go from a 9 to an 8 as it's novelty and audacity has worn off?  I doubt it
6.  Will Lawsonia finally get the 7 it deserves?  NO
7.  What hidden gems have been uncovered since the last guide?  Not a clue
8.  Will Desert Highlands still be an 8?  I expect so
9.  How will Kingsley be rated and reviewed? The review will be even handed - 7
10.  How will he address the overweening conditioning and cost that has burdened the game in the intervening years?  Is this the remit of the CF?
11.  How will he handle Medinah #3, Dismal 1 and Forest Dunes?  Doak handles things - no issue
12.  What courses will make the biggest move up and the biggest move down?  Very little movement either way
13.  How many Langfords has he visited or revisited?  Not a clue
14.  How does the 2013 perspective color his view of Pete Dye, Jack Nicklaus, Tom Fazio and RTJ?  Likely not much different from his 1993 perspective
15.  What does he make of Sean Arble's favorites?  I think as many as seven may make the book so not bad ratings, but no real stars.  We didn't speak on the issue, but I will take a stab at it

Delamere 5  
Whittington Heath 4  
Harborne 4  
Edgbaston 4
Beau Desert 5  
Kington 5
Perranporth 5  
Yelverton 4  
Stoneham 6  
Hockley 3   
Huntercombe 5  

16. How will be rate Trump Aberdeen?  7

Ciao

[Mark Bourgeois]

I'm just looking forward to reading whatever he writes. Will be interesting to see how Old Tom's views differ from Young Tom's, not so much in any numbers but in general perspective. Also looking forward to the gazetteer (hope there is one), to any new writeups in Gourmet's Choice, and to new entries in Asia.

[Josh Tarble]

I am interested to see how he handles is own courses.  I think there are 2? in the old and he handled them pretty honestly I thought. But they all can't be 10s can they?  

[Tim Leahy]

How about a special preview price for GCA members?

[Thomas Dai]

Will Rosehearty be included?
ATB

[Tom_Doak]

Jud:

I will be happy to answer these questions and more, but it will take me a couple of days to get to it -- I've got my hands full in China for two more days, and then I'll be at Royal Melbourne on the weekend to try and sort out their questions.  Hopefully after that, things settle down a little bit for me.

[Connor Dougherty]

Jud:

I will be happy to answer these questions and more, but it will take me a couple of days to get to it -- I've got my hands full in China for two more days, and then I'll be at Royal Melbourne on the weekend to try and sort out their questions.  Hopefully after that, things settle down a little bit for me.

But isn't part of the fun the suspense?    I may stay off this thread for a while.

[Thomas Dai]

Delamere 5  
Whittington Heath 4  
Harborne 4  
Edgbaston 4
Beau Desert 5  
Kington 5
Perranporth 5  
Yelverton 4  
Stoneham 6  
Hockley 3   
Huntercombe 5  

If Stoneham's a level up from Beau Desert then I guess I need to get along there pretty pronto as BD is damn good!
ATB

[Jud_T]

Did Spring Valley make the cut?

[Jim Hoak]

Has anyone seen the redo of Desert Forest?  How will its ranking change?

[Dave Givnish]

Jim -

I'll start a post on the Desert Forest renovation. I've watched the entire project, and will play when we open this weekend. In short, I don't think that the changes will affect the course rating or slope much either way. It was rated recently but that may change once there has been some play for about 6 months. The course looks much wider (looks are deceiving...) and the vistas are much more open as a result of the tree removal. The Golf Digest raters should like the changes because of the added length. I'm not sure how the Golfweek raters will view the changes but Brad Klein has been involved through the process, so hopefully they'll see it as a sympathetic renovation.

Dave

[Carl Rogers]

Tom,
I also wonder how your early work will be reviewed?  Maybe some encouraging words about Riverfront that might generate some curiousity for those on the east coast?

[Tom_Doak]

Jud:  Here is half your starter list.  That's as much as I have time for now.

1.  Will the Old Course go down to a 9 from a 10 due to the recent Hawtree work?
     No.

2.  Will University of Michigan go from a 3 to a 5?
     Did I really give it a 3?  That was pretty harsh.  Was that before or after the Arthur Hills renovation?  It will do better now.

3.  How will he rate the work of Mike Strantz?
     His best work probably rates a 7 on my scale.  I haven't finalized those grades yet, because I have not yet gotten to the U.S. courses, which will be in a subsequent volume.

4.  Which will be higher, Lost Dunes or Old Mac?
     Probably Old Macdonald, although they might rate the same.

5.  Will Shadow Creek go from a 9 to an 8 as it's novelty and audacity has worn off?
     Probably not.  I have not been back to play it again, and I'm trying not to change my opinion of a course unless I have gone back to see it again.  I may make a few exceptions to that rule, based on a changing landscape of golf courses, and it's possible that a place like Shadow Creek might be one of those changes.  But I still think of it as novel and audacious.

6.  Will Lawsonia finally get the 7 it deserves?
     I haven't been back there.  Perhaps I'll have reason to be in Wisconsin next summer.  Perhaps not.

7.  What hidden gems have been uncovered since the last guide?
     Lots of them.  But if I list them here and now, they'll be disqualified as hidden.  Most of them have been discussed on Golf Club Atlas at some point.

8.  Will Desert Highlands still be an 8?
     See #5, above.

[Ivan Lipko]

A few more questions to Mr. Doak:

- Do you have any plans to come to Russia and rate our courses?
- What about other less known golf countries: Turkey, Morocco, Finland?

[Tom_Doak]

A few more questions to Mr. Doak:

- Do you have any plans to come to Russia and rate our courses?
- What about other less known golf countries: Turkey, Morocco, Finland?

Ivan:

I've got 2-3 more years to think about those places, before the volume that covers Europe and Africa is on the docket.  I will probably get to some of the places you mention, but probably not all of them.

Fortunately, a couple of my collaborators have already gotten there.

[Sean_A]

What will be the areas covered in each volume and what will be the order of release?

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

I know the GB&I volume comes out next year... I probably missed what format... Hopefully a real hold in your hand copy?

[Ruediger Meyer]

Fortunately, a couple of my collaborators have already gotten there.

Might have been mentioned in another thread, but I haven't seen it. Who will be your collaborators?

[Jud_T]

2.  Will University of Michigan go from a 3 to a 5?
     Did I really give it a 3?  That was pretty harsh.  Was that before or after the Arthur Hills renovation?  It will do better now.

My bad- you already addressed this in the later edition:

"5....It's also a much better layout than I had noticed in my first walk-through, on which I missed several of the early holes due to fading light."

[BCowan]

Jud

    I would hope UofM would move to the 7.4-8 range.  The changes they are making are very wise and it is in good hands.  The course as of now is in my personal top 5.  I have been meaning to get with one of the starters who has been there for 60 years and knows the course history very well.  I hope to have a review to post of UofM next year.  The 18th hole had a creek in front of the green in the original design, it is now a pond due to run off water from Main St.  Hopefully the University can purchase some of the land of the outing course next door to build a range.  They refuse to sell.    

[Mark Bourgeois]

How will the gazetteer and Gourmet's Choice sections be handled given multiple volumes?

Can we have scores using original and better version of the Doak Scale on China courses, if not in the book then on here at some point, for travel decision-making purposes? I would guess those won't change anyone's decisions whether to travel from Oz or USA and but for someone already in a particular PRC city, or in PRC with a weekend to kill, it would help to know how far a course is worth traveling to play.

Re the U Michigan course: is there a more exciting place to play in the USA than during a home game in the Big House?

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