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Thomas Dai

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Re: Your Starting Five
« Reply #75 on: October 18, 2013, 04:07:11 AM »
Quote from: David Harshbarger on October 17, 2013, 10:15:43 PM
1,000 sheep, 18 flags, and a hole cutter.

Great line!

In Patric Dickinson's splendid book 'A round of golf courses' there is a story about Royal St Davids and how Harold Finch-Hatton was spotted on the dune land by a MH More and when asked what he was up to HFH replied, and I quote from PD's book,  "Capital place for a golf links, come on let's lay one out.....so the two went around placing tees and greens and so the course began..".

All the best

PS - quite surprised that after 75 posts in and only four mentions  of Herbert Fowler.
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Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Starting Five
« Reply #76 on: October 18, 2013, 10:26:11 AM »
Interesting that Ross, Tillie and Flynn are not mentioned more.   Perhaps their brilliance lies in the absence of a defined formula or brand, superior routings maximizing the lay-of-the-land, subtle shaping and what I would call "quietly bold" architecture.  Compared to their peers and today's architects, their courses can seem underwhelming as opposed to others where the architecture overwhelms the game played over it.  

Perhaps this thread suggests they are under-appreciated.

If I was builidng 10 courses, I'd let Ross do the first five, then see how it goes from there.  If I tired of him I'd call The Captain in from the bullpen - photographs of his original work are simply captivating.   Maybe Colt and Dev after that.  Then Tillie or Flynn and finally a Dye/Doak collaboration.

Bogey

« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 10:32:29 AM by Michael_Hendren »
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Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Steve Kline

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Starting Five
« Reply #77 on: October 18, 2013, 10:37:05 AM »
Bogey:

I had Ross on my list for two reasons:

1) I absolutely love his greens. Great internal slopes with lots of strategy for day to day play.
2) I love how his routings almost always have one or to groupings of tees and greens in close approximately. I think that makes them fun for member play.
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Bill Crane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Starting Five
« Reply #78 on: October 18, 2013, 12:56:30 PM »
William Flynn   ;)

Alister McKenzie

Harry Colt

Coore & Crenshaw

A W Tillinghas


Gotta have FLYNN !!


Wm Flynnfan
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_________________________________________________________________
( s k a Wm Flynnfan }

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Starting Five
« Reply #79 on: October 18, 2013, 01:07:57 PM »
Mike Nuzzo
Ian Andrew
Brian Phillips
Rod Whitman
Proctor and Axland

Lots of reasons, too many to discuss. Tom and B&B/C&C would be on the list, but they have had plenty of great opportunities. Time to see what some other folks can do.

Realistically, I only need one call, and it goes to Mike and Don.

Apologies if that offends anyone. Deal with it.
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Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Starting Five
« Reply #80 on: October 18, 2013, 07:09:41 PM »
Bogey

Ross would make my long short list.  We were limited to five but I would certainly talk to more if I were building a course.  Tillie and Flynn would not make the list though.  I have not seen mush of what they have done which really ticks my motor over.  The first description for them is difficult and that is not what I would want to build.

Ciao
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New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

John DAngelo

Re: Your Starting Five
« Reply #81 on: October 18, 2013, 07:40:50 PM »
My five - force ranked:

MacKenzie
Thomas
Fazio
Doak
Ross
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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Starting Five
« Reply #82 on: October 18, 2013, 07:47:34 PM »
Quote from: John DAngelo on October 18, 2013, 07:40:50 PM
My five - force ranked:

MacKenzie
Thomas
Fazio
Doak
Ross

There we have it folks. Fazio over Doak. Let the wars begin. :o
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

John DAngelo

Re: Your Starting Five
« Reply #83 on: October 18, 2013, 07:53:45 PM »
Quote from: GJ Bailey on October 18, 2013, 07:47:34 PM
Quote from: John DAngelo on October 18, 2013, 07:40:50 PM
My five - force ranked:

MacKenzie
Thomas
Fazio
Doak
Ross

There we have it folks. Fazio over Doak. Let the wars begin. :o

but above Ross...
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cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Starting Five
« Reply #84 on: October 18, 2013, 09:46:14 PM »
5 dead guys
Strantz
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Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Jim Tang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Starting Five
« Reply #85 on: October 19, 2013, 10:07:46 AM »
Doak
Coore and Crenshaw
MacKenzie
Dye
Strantz
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Diederik Visser

Re: Your Starting Five
« Reply #86 on: October 19, 2013, 12:54:42 PM »
Simpson
MacKenzie
Colt
Doak
MacDonald
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V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Starting Five
« Reply #87 on: October 20, 2013, 08:56:42 AM »
Good fun...

My team                                           Our Contentious Rivals
Ross        (Point Guard)                                          Wilson  
Thomas   (Shooting Guard)                                     Muirhead
Tillie        (Center)                              vs.               RTJ
Raynor     (Power Forward)                                    Dye
Hanse      (Small Forward)                                     Fazio

6th man:  Mackenzie                                              Maxwell

Coach: CBM                                                          Emmet
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"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Chris DeToro

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Starting Five
« Reply #88 on: October 21, 2013, 08:13:42 PM »
Two that I'd love to see more of that haven't gotten much traction on this thread:

Devries
Weiskopf

Three that have gotten lots of votes, so no shock:
Ross
Doak
MacKenzie
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Matthew Lloyd

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Starting Five
« Reply #89 on: October 21, 2013, 08:52:17 PM »
i definitely won't be reinventing the wheel here but I'd go with:

(1) Ross
(2) Mackenzie
(3) Weiskopf
(4) Doak
(5) Devries

heavily biased towards courses I've actually played but that's all I feel qualified to judge
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Ari Techner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Starting Five
« Reply #90 on: October 21, 2013, 08:55:29 PM »
1.  Maxwell
2.  Macdonald
3.  Colt
4.  Fownes
5.  Crump
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Jim Nelson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Starting Five
« Reply #91 on: October 21, 2013, 10:00:42 PM »
Quote from: Jim Colton on October 16, 2013, 04:01:36 PM
Imagine that a genie granted you the following wishes:

 - He grants you a plot of unfettered land that you would consider to be the perfect site for a golf course. Doak 11 potential. Just picture that site in your head, you don't have to describe it.

 - Then he says, "you can choose any architect, dead or alive, to design and build your golf course for you...who do you want? I still need to check on their availability, so give me a list of 5 in order of preference."

Who's your five? I don't want any qualifiers or any statements like 'I'd choose X for Site A, but Y for Site B'  Just a list of five names in order for your dream site is fine. If somebody questions your list, then you are free to discuss your rationale in more detail.

Hi Jim:

A couple of things.  First, the dead guys are not available.  Second, I would be interested in your answer to this question.  Let's not make it hypothetical, such as I have a great piece of land.  I have a good piece of land that I want to develop into a money making enterprise.  Let's say it's a housing development cuz that's about the only chance you have of making any money.  So now, no dead people and you have to make money.  You buying 2000 acres and developing it into a first class development, putting yours or other money into it, say many 250 million.  Real money, really tough decision.  Now who do you chose?  Don't mean to hijack this thread, so happy to make it another, but thought it would work.  

Jim
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I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world.  This makes it hard to plan the day.  E. B. White

Jim Colton

Re: Your Starting Five
« Reply #92 on: October 22, 2013, 01:38:45 AM »
Jim,

  Hope you are well. Not sure if you meant that for me, but I'm gonna take a pass on the project.

  Jim
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David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Starting Five
« Reply #93 on: October 22, 2013, 05:52:23 PM »
Quote from: Chris DeToro on October 21, 2013, 08:13:42 PM
Two that I'd love to see more of that haven't gotten much traction on this thread:

Devries
Weiskopf

Three that have gotten lots of votes, so no shock:
Ross
Doak
MacKenzie

Quote from: Matthew Lloyd on October 21, 2013, 08:52:17 PM
i definitely won't be reinventing the wheel here but I'd go with:

(1) Ross
(2) Mackenzie
(3) Weiskopf
(4) Doak
(5) Devries

Chris and Matthew,

Since you guys posted right next to each other and had the same five architects my question would be, what is it about Weiskopf and his work that would make you hire him over almost every golf architect who ever lived?
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"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Chris DeToro

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Starting Five
« Reply #94 on: October 22, 2013, 06:24:04 PM »
David, it is quite strange that we both have the same list--quite coincidental...

But I gave Weiskopf the nod based solely on his work at Forest Dunes.  I think he really created a masterpiece out of a piece of land and an area of the state that is really unassuming and not that interesting comparatively.  I didn't necessarily pick him because I think he's better though--I picked him more out of potential and the desire to see what he could do with a great piece tract of land.  I liken it to the Cavs taking Bennett with the first pick in the last NBA draft  :)
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Matthew Lloyd

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Starting Five
« Reply #95 on: October 22, 2013, 06:50:13 PM »
My rationale for Weiskopf is based on three factors:

(1) like Chris, I was blown away by Forest Dunes and that's in my top 5 for favorite courses that I've played;

(2) based on what I just wrote, it's clear I haven't had the opportunity to play as many great courses as I would like, so I've had far less exposure to some of the great architects than other players on this site, so I only wanted to include designers whose courses I've played; for instance, I have no doubt that Coore/Crenshaw will have a strong shot at joining this list once I play their courses as conceptually they represent everything that I love about golf courses, but until I actually play them I'll leave them off for now

(3) as a Columbus, Ohio native I still love Weiskopf for being removed by CBS from covering The Masters when he claimed Columbus had five courses better than Augusta.  No doubt inaccurate, but I loved it anyway, so I'll always be a fan of his.
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David Kelly

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Re: Your Starting Five
« Reply #96 on: October 22, 2013, 07:31:32 PM »
I haven't played any of Weskopf's most renowned work, what I've played is some of his weaker stuff.  On his website (which barely works, is kind of sad and may have been abandoned) he doesn't list all of his courses.  Forest Dunes gets great reviews across the board though.
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"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Chris DeToro

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Starting Five
« Reply #97 on: October 23, 2013, 07:59:45 AM »
Now with the second course being built at Forest Dunes, all the more reason to visit!!
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Paul Jones

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Re: Your Starting Five
« Reply #98 on: October 23, 2013, 09:19:39 AM »
1. Trump - so it will be The Greatest
2. Rees Jones - so it can hold Major and be miserable for everyone else
3. Arthur Hills - so cart paths will be in play
4. Martin Hawktree - since Old Course wasn't good enough for him
5. Tom Fazio - so my friends can compare it to Augusta Natl
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Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Michael Ryan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Starting Five
« Reply #99 on: October 23, 2013, 03:32:47 PM »
Since he still seems to be available, can I take George Crump 5 times?  When his friends come over and help out, it seems to produce pretty good results.

Mike
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