[V. Kmetz]

...but before I think about giving it a ring and marrying it to represent some of my GCA opinions, I'd like the board's take on what this term

Sportiness

means...

My initial comprehension of the term (one that is available for moderation based on the board's input) is that it is:

In basic gross:
"that which adds "sport" to the exercise"  "Sport" as in, perhaps, "he's a good sport" where "sport" might be said to mean "fair, unwilling to put personal success above the conduct of the exercise."  
OR...
it may mean, as in perhaps a comment after quail hunting "that's good sport" where "sport" means "exhilaration, satisfaction."

Combining those two definitions, and then applying it to a green surface or succession of moguls near the landing area of a drive zone, I come up with "Sportiness" (for GCA) as:

A feature that adds both chance and amusement to the exercise.  Executed with the desire that repeated outcomes and standardized methods of solution are diminished.

What do you think?


cheers

vk

[Kevin_D]

I love it.  Can I start using this immediately?

[V. Kmetz]

It's not my own coined term, of course...

It was in the Master Plan Prospectus for restoration of a "Top 100" course, and it made me consider what it meant.

cheers

vk

[Patrick_Mucci]

VK,

In ranking courses, I don't consider a numerical format, but rather, a four tiered format

Championship
Sporty
Member
Other

[V. Kmetz]

Hi Pat,

But do you think my RED definition is an adequate one or is there something I'm missing or added too much?  What is your own, if different?

If it means what I think it means ("Sportiness"); it probably is the single largest element lacking in plain, banal, penal, or otherwise disposable courses.

That crazy, scrubby, arcane 9-Hole Pequenahakonck course  in North Salem, NY (with that wild par 3 "Kilimanjaro" that I referenced in my last slate of postings a month ago) is off the charts with small "sporty" greens and other "sporty" features, and THAT is perhaps the chief reason why a nutsy-fagin anomaly like that can bear some sober architectural interest, if not lessons/models.

cheers

vk

[Patrick_Mucci]

Hi Pat,

But do you think my RED definition is an adequate one or is there something I'm missing or added too much?  What is your own, if different?
I think yours is a reasonable/adequate description/definition

If it means what I think it means ("Sportiness"); it probably is the single largest element lacking in plain, banal, penal, or otherwise disposable courses.

I think the transitioning emphasis from match to medal play and the rising clamor for "fairness" is largely responsible for the diminishment or elimination of "sportiness"

That crazy, scrubby, arcane 9-Hole Pequenahakonck course  in North Salem, NY (with that wild par 3 "Kilimanjaro" that I referenced in my last slate of postings a month ago) is off the charts with small "sporty" greens and other "sporty" features, and THAT is perhaps the chief reason why a nutsy-fagin anomaly like that can bear some sober architectural interest, if not lessons/models.


With an emphasis on medal play, "sportiness" can be a round ruiner, whereas, in match play, it's just one hole lost, thus "sportiness" has become an endangered species

[Jud_T]

VK,

don't worry, with another generation of agronomist/programmers and upwardly mobile memberships, green speed envy will make sportiness go the way of the dodobird...

[Philip Caccamise]

VK,

In ranking courses, I don't consider a numerical format, but rather, a four tiered format

Championship
Sporty
Member
Other

Define "sporty" by some courses in the NY area. Do you mean like a Montclair? Not quite top 100 not quite championship but a damn good course that's really fun to play?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Philip,

Montclair is a hybrid, a bit of a mix of several categories.

It sits on an unusual piece of property, a rounded hillside.

My father caddied at Montclair in the 1920's and I caddied and played there in the 1950's, before most of the alterations forced upon the course by the introduction of tennis courts, a result of the temporary increase in popularity of tennis in the 1970's.

One of the considerations for me classifying a course/hole as sporty is one where length isn't a primary requirement.

The old 7th on the first nine might be a perfect example.
Ditto #'s 5, 6 and 7 on the fourth nine.
# 4 on the third nine and numbers 1, 2, 4, 7, 8 and 9 on the second nine.

The old 4th on the first nine, 2nd on the second nine, 5th on the third nine and 2nd, 3rd and 4th on the fourth nine would be of a championship nature where distance was a critical factor.

There are many other holes which serve as more benign "member" holes.

I basically learned to play golf on Montclair as it was the home course for my high school golf team, so the course remains fairly familiar to me.

[Philip Caccamise]

That's pretty much what I thought you were getting at with those definitions. Very cool that that was your high school home course/caddied there, I just threw it out as a course I thought of as "sporty". A boss of mine was a member there and we'd go play 9 after work a few times a month, a great place to be a member IMO.

[Sean_A]

It's not my own coined term, of course...

It was in the Master Plan Prospectus for restoration of a "Top 100" course, and it made me consider what it meant.

cheers

vk

Its quite an old British term, probably coined by Darwin.  "Holiday" too is quite an old term which should be placed next to "sporty" in the golf lexicon.

Ciao

[Patrick_Mucci]

Philip,

Ross and Banks did great work on that site.

Bobby Jones called Montclair the longest short course he ever played

A good number of landing areas are on upslopes making the course play far longer than the yardage

[Lou_Duran]

A feature that adds both chance and amusement to the exercise.  Executed with the desire that repeated outcomes and standardized methods of solution are diminished.

What do you think?


cheers

vk

That if I wanted a society of lunatics and schizophrenics, I would organize it under this principle.

[Niall C]

It's not my own coined term, of course...

It was in the Master Plan Prospectus for restoration of a "Top 100" course, and it made me consider what it meant.

cheers

vk

Its quite an old British term, probably coined by Darwin.  "Holiday" too is quite an old term which should be placed next to "sporty" in the golf lexicon.

Ciao

Sean

The term sporty pre-dates Darwin and indeed its not a word Darwin tended to use from recollection. The term was largely used back at the turn of the 20th century and I would judge was used to describe old cross country style courses with lots of challenge. Todays modern wide open courses, would I feel, not qualify as sporty in terms of how the word was used back then.

From what I've seen the term "holiday" golf was used later than that and used to describe enjoyable, relatively easy courses that weren't up to championship standard as it began to be defined.

Niall

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