[Mike_Young]

Greg,
Agree regarding how the fee is charged.  There is zero reason to charge me such a fee when I will not have that many guys sign up for handicaps.  I think it is more of them knowing what they need to operate and charging accordingly than doing as you suggest.   IMHO their responsibility lies with the member clubs an the individuals are members of the clubs which are the golf association members.  But I often ask myself that question now when it comes to the NGCOA and state golf assoc...how are they helping my bottom line?  The assoc is there because of the clubs and they depend on the cubs much more than the clubs depend on them.  IMHO

I never looked at a state golf association as an organization that was particularly beneficial to a club/course but rather one that whose real purpose was to privde handicap services along with event organization, promotion and operation.

They view clubs as merely the mechanism through which they conect with the golfing poulation and, to your point, should charge accordingly.

Greg,
We agree on all of the above.
I think the next battle we will see is the handicap fee battle.  That is the main revenue source for many golf associations and there are now outside ways to obtain a handicap.  If one was to take the view that present above and look at the main reason for existence is the individual then watch out.  Small public golf courses will not pay the same fee as larger clubs and it will not be long until Golf Now has a handicap system along with teesheet etc.  Add the logic of converting to the R&A handicap system on top of this and there will be a battle.  We already know that less than 3% the people that hold a handicap use it in competitive events and we know that it is not that critical to many of the guys that play.  JMO

[Chris Cupit]

I am volunteering right now as a rules official (in Florida actually ) but my perspective is as a forty one year member course of the GSGA (like Mike I actually write a check to them) and as a Past President of the GSGA (2009-10).

I don't have time to respond right now but I will. 

[Michael Whitaker]

Mike - I need to apologize to the GSGA... it was not a representative of their magazine that contacted me about SC advertising leads... it was a rep of Fore Georgia, the magazine of the Georgia Section PGA. It was the pros not the amateurs!

[Tom_Doak]

The Met Golfer [official magazine of the Metropolitan NY Golf Association] has published articles and advertisements for years about out-of-state courses.  Of course, they're a multi-state organization to start with, and many of their members travel to play golf in the winter months, so perhaps that's a different situation than in Georgia. 

[Mike_Young]

The Met Golfer [official magazine of the Metropolitan NY Golf Association] has published articles and advertisements for years about out-of-state courses.  Of course, they're a multi-state organization to start with, and many of their members travel to play golf in the winter months, so perhaps that's a different situation than in Georgia. 

Tom,
I see no problem with advertising by out of state courses.  I have a problem with the association taking them on as partners just as the USGA does Lexus, Amex etc..

[Chris Cupit]

OK.  I'm back

First, I do understand some of the frustrations course owners have with state and regional golf associations in general and the GSGA in particular.  I realize that for some owners membership may not be the right decision though I think many people do not understand or appreciate all the state golf association does--certainly some of the blame for not getting the message out regarding all the benefits falls on the GSGA.

I also understand that private courses and daily fee courses have different constituants, wants and needs from the GSGA but again, I think some of the benefits are not being mentioned.

The GSGA charges $25 per member per club.  I pay the same per member that you do.  There used to be a minimum of 100 members required to be a GSGA member club and as you know, that minimum number was lowered from 100 members to 50 members a couple of years ago in order to help smaller, primarily daily fee courses, like yours.  The $1250 you mention is not a flat fee;it represents the minimum number of 50 members multiplied by $25 for a total of $1250.00  If you had 51 members sign up for the service the charge would be $1275.  My bill this year because I have a lot of members (men, wives and juniors) was right around $16,000

As a GSGA Member Club the owner gets a number of things:

1.  The computers for clubs program puts a Dell computer and printer in every member club.  The computer is supposed to be used for the GHIN handicap system though many smaller clubs use those computers as an "extra" or "golf shop" computer/printer.

2.  $1 (I think) of the $25 goes to support lobbying for the industry in the state capitol.  The GSGA contributes the lion's share among the industry reps (GGCSA, CMAA and PGA) to pay for a lobbyist to represent our interests.  Anyone who has followed the water wars in GA and water issues in general should be thankful for the incredible work that has been done on behalf of our industry at the capitol.  Frankly, GSGA money plus the efforts of the GGCSA has allowed GA golf courses to retain access at a level exceeded only by the agricultural lobby.  GA golf courses have water access that is the envy of many in neighboring states and all owners should thank the GSGA and the GGCSA for their combined efforts.

3.  A portion of the dues also support the Yates and Moncreif Scholarship programs.  This program is a benefict directly to course owners and member clubs.  Under this program any employee or dependent of an employee at a GSGA club is eligible for around $3-4,000  per year in college scholarship money.  Employees and dependents of employees at your club Mike could get a four year scholarship worth over $10,000 just because you are part of the GSGA.  The program divides scholarship into rising college freshmen, in college students and non  traditioinal students (a chef e.g. who goes back to school).  This is a HUGE benefit for an employee and a great perk to offer them as a GSGA member club.  We also support the Moncreif Turfgrass Program at ABAC and UGA.  I think the endowment is now over $3M and I am guessing 75-100 employees at GSGA member clubs are currently receiving aid totaling in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

4.  By 2008-09, the Ga Golf Hall of Fame had lost all of its state funding and frankly, no one knew what may happen to it.  Private interests expressed desires to "buy" it from the state and some feared that even holding the annual banquet to induct new Members could be lost.  No other group in GA had the resources or frankly, the standing or reputation to take ownership of this state asset.  It was the GSGA that steppe up, worked the incredible details out with the state and preserved the independance of the GA Golf Hall of Fame.  Again, this was a thankless job and the first two years saw the GSGA absord considerable costs to host the induction ceremonies.  This year, I think for the first time ever, the event broke even and the future of the Hall of Fame, as an important asset for GA golf, is in good hands.

(A private club was seriously trying to "buy" the Hall of Fame and use it as a marketing tool frankly--had the GSGA not stepped up, who knows who or what entity would own it today).

5.  In addition to providing handicapping services, the GSGA does course ratings and periodic distance measurements for all the clubs.  Without a rated course, no handicap system is considered valid by the USGA.  

6.  The GSGA holds numerous free handicap and TPP seminars for your employees as well as very affordable rules seminars co-hosted with the GA PGA.

7.  GA does run many championships and of course numerous qualifiers for the USGA.  I have played all the world and I can tell you the level of professionalism at GSGA events is second to none.

For your Members these are their direct benefits:

1.  A handicap  Now, only 2-3% of GSGA members play in competitive scratch events that do require a handicap BUT if you are like many clubs, my members must have a valid handicap of some type to participate in my MGA club events.  Handicaps, while not the silver bullet they once were for state golf assoc., are still vital for many more than 3% of "regular" golfers on a daily basis!

2.  All GSGA members receive the bi-monthly (and award winning ) GolfGeorgia Magazine.

3.  All GSGA members receive their choice of an annual subscription of either Golf Week or Golf Digest Magazine.

4.  All GSGA members are eligible for the GSGA tournaments as well as the nearly twenty (?) or so One Day Member Playdays at courses all over the state.

5.  The GSGA runs a Jr. Sectional Program that allows kids to play for just $15 per event--pricing obviously subsidized by overall dues--and it should be.  All Junior sectional events have GSGA volunteers just like the "regular" events.  

6.  There are some other travel and reward programs that I am not as familiar with as I should be too.

All of this is for $25 bucks a year.  Yes, a player can get a handicap for free or cheaper somewhere else but GSGA membership is not just about a handicap.

Also, as a club owner you know I mentioned an initiative the GSGA is working on to help member clubs/owners with the whole issue of insurance and those rising costs.  The Owners group has never been able to help much and frankly, for the GSGA to take on an issue like this and bring possible relief to smaller member clubs is incredible.  I understand they are simply waiting n state approval to proceed.

The GSGA also has spent considerable time trying to understand the needs of all owners and offer solutions to the Golf Now "issue".  Honestly, the owners of daily fee courses have no one but themselves to blame for the Faustian bargain they struck with third party tee time aggregators!  Golf Now has completely and totally commoditized tee time inventory but only thanks to the willing particiaption of the owners!  That is a whole different debate for another time but I promise the GSGA has been talking with many owners about possible alternatives to the Golf Now business model.  The issue is that many owners simply can't afford to cut the cord so to speak and may never be able to free themselves from Golf Now's shackles--but that was self imposed.

Going back to the pricing, every club I know charges their members slightly more than the $25 charged to them by the GSGA.  For example I charge my members an annual GSGA Membership fee of $8 on top of the GSGA charge for a total of $33.  Some larger clubs charge as much as $50-$75 per year and obviously make some money off the "handicap" charge.  

Again, the $1250 is NOT a fee and small clubs certainly do NOT pay the same as big clubs--it is a per member charge with a minimum of 50.    If you charge a little extra as most clubs do, your "break even" is slightly less than 50 members.  What do you charge your guy to join?

Lastly, I kind of understand your gripe about the advertising but what should the GSGA do--turn down advertising dollars?  Part of the mission is to bring good value and golf opportunities to all our GSGA members--shouldn't that include possible deals to play golf wherever that may be?  I can see the other side but should they not accept PGA Superstore advertising as it competes with PGA pros and the growing number of member clubs that own the golf shop now?  No advertising from Titleist, Callaway or other manufacturers since Mizuno is a GA (Norcross) company.  OK, kind of a GA company    

I think it is hard to draw the line but you are welcome to advertise in the magazine too!  I have in the past.  

Lots of legitimate and important issues to be discussed--I just want the discussion to be balanced

PS  FWIW while i have served on the board and am a Past President, I am no longer on the board and am simply a regular volunteer now--I am not speaking officially for the GSGA

[Chris Cupit]

Also....

The GSGA was the primary funding agent for the Economic Impact Study of Golf in Ga done by Stanford.  This document was expensive but will be used by all in the industry to highlight the economic benefits of golf in GA re employment, property taxes, direct economic impact as well as indirect benefits.  Just another of the many, behind the scenes things the GSGA does on behalf of all in the industry in our state.

[Mike_Young]

Chris,
Thanks for the response.
I tend to agree with you on almost all you say except for the minimum.
I think I have been able to get 28 people to sign up in a little over a year and that was with almost 20,000 rounds.  I charge them $35.

Advertising is one thing.  Making them one of several partners is another.  I don't care if they have partners but IMHO there should be no golf courses as partners including Reynolds which is in the state.  The one and only reason they do this is for dollars.  Golf companies like Titleist and Toro have specific territories and they sell there only even though the product is sold by others in other states.  I'm just not buying the partner thing.   I don't know if you recall or not but my wife started the Through the Green Magazine of the GCCSA.  Many of her advertising agreements from distributors insisted they be the only one advertising their brand of equipment in the magazine.  And that has become much harder today since the national companies cannot control where their used equipment is sold. Therefore a used Toro equipment piece could be sold by a Toro distributor in areas outside his distributorship. But I don't think the trade journals take the ads of the out of state distributors selling their used equipment even still.   I also question whether the off course retailers should be brought into the advertising of the association magazine.  
So at the end of the day I am all for supporting them but with no minimum and understanding that their goal is to fully support Georgia golf courses.  Supporting courses outside of Ga in exchange for advertising dollars is a problem with me.  
And I still see it as $1250 minimum not $25 dollars.  I know a lot of small places feel the same.  When we reach at least 50 and have exceeded the minimum I would still feel the same.
I still have to come se you...maybe when the big one comes to town next month...

[Chris Cupit]

You and fat boy together?  I'm in

[Mike_Young]

You and fat boy together?  I'm in

Have you seen fat boy doing the diet commercial? 

[Chris Cupit]

I draw the line there!

Question:  how many unique golf ears do you think you have out of your 20000 rounds?  Do you run any club events?  If so, how would you flight or handicap guys without a handicap?

Back to the sponsor thing I thought Sea Island was our only course "partner" but that was several years ago. I am out of the loop now though and am not aware of what courses may be sponsors.

[Chris Cupit]

As to the minimum, do you feel that there should be no minimum whatsoever in return for member club benefits.  Should a five member club get the same benefits as a five hundred?  I know that's extreme but where do you draw the line?

[Mike_Young]

Chris,
No argument with me as to GSGA and handicap value etc.  I would hope that all clubs would strive to have the 50 people wanting a handicap but I don't think there should be a minimum.  The benefits you mention are good but are mostly for the individual but the clubs are used as agents for collecting these.  That's fine but they bear the burden of paying the difference until they reach 50 people.  We will have 50 by next year but I will still be opposed to the minimum because I see so many other clubs that may not ever get 50. 

[jeffwarne]

The Met Golfer [official magazine of the Metropolitan NY Golf Association] has published articles and advertisements for years about out-of-state courses.  Of course, they're a multi-state organization to start with, and many of their members travel to play golf in the winter months, so perhaps that's a different situation than in Georgia. 

The equivalent of that would be having Cabot Links or Irish Tourism advertising in the GSGA publication, not a problem for a golfer looking to escape the Georgia summer heat.
Advertising a course 20 miles from Georgia would be quite different, and a problem in my opinion.

[Mike_Young]

The Met Golfer [official magazine of the Metropolitan NY Golf Association] has published articles and advertisements for years about out-of-state courses.  Of course, they're a multi-state organization to start with, and many of their members travel to play golf in the winter months, so perhaps that's a different situation than in Georgia. 

The equivalent of that would be having Cabot Links or Irish Tourism advertising in the GSGA publication, not a problem for a golfer looking to escape the Georgia summer heat.
Advertising a course 20 miles from Georgia would be quite different, and a problem in my opinion.

Jeff,
I agree under the current system of collecting revenues by the state golf association.  Now, if I am a magazine like Golf Digest or Golf or Golfweek and I get my subscriptions directly form the consumer then fine.  Advertise the course next door all you want.  BUT if I am a state golf association magazine which requires that the state courses be members for a minimum amount of money and those individual courses harbor the individual golfer members of those state golf associations then there is a problem.  In essence each course is paying a minimum of $1250 to an association that is also seeking partners and advertising from outside sources.  No problem with me if member courses advertise.
What is never discussed is that the associations need the courses more than the courses need the associations.  That's not meant as adversarial. it's just reality.  The bottom line of what the associations need is the approx 85000 handicap fees ( using Ga as example, other states could vary) and the tournament entry fees etc.  AND again I am in favor of all of that.  The current system just puts the middle man ( course owner) in a bad position.

[Chris Cupit]

Without any minimum you will have abuse. Imagine this:  an owner at a small club with 200 members and therefore about 300 potential association dues paying members decides to have one join for $25 bucks, receives all the benefits I mentioned and then provides handicaps himself to everyone else. It would happen unfortunately and that just wouldn't be fair.

I can't tell you how significant it was to have a seat at the Capitol when water issues were being discussed. That's just one example. Back in 2006-7 at height of drought many were calling for a complete watering ban including greens even if the water was "yours". In GA virtually all water (wells, your lakes, ponds, creeks) falls under the purview of the state and they could literally shut down the entire industry.

A minimum of 50 at a club is very reasonable. There are absolute tangible benefits for the club and individual golfer. Even with just 28 guys at $35 your net you pay to the state golf association is $270. I'd say you get way more bang for your buck with GSGA than annual dues for many other associations!  The computer and printer alone are worth something.

[Greg Tallman]

Without any minimum you will have abuse. Imagine this:  an owner at a small club with 200 members and therefore about 300 potential association dues paying members decides to have one join for $25 bucks, receives all the benefits I mentioned and then provides handicaps himself to everyone else. It would happen unfortunately and that just wouldn't be fair.

I can't tell you how significant it was to have a seat at the Capitol when water issues were being discussed. That's just one example. Back in 2006-7 at height of drought many were calling for a complete watering ban including greens even if the water was "yours". In GA virtually all water (wells, your lakes, ponds, creeks) falls under the purview of the state and they could literally shut down the entire industry.

A minimum of 50 at a club is very reasonable. There are absolute tangible benefits for the club and individual golfer. Even with just 28 guys at $35 your net you pay to the state golf association is $270. I'd say you get way more bang for your buck with GSGA than annual dues for many other associations!  The computer and printer alone are worth something.

Chris,

Why not outline the benfits as you do above (I assume they do in some form but obvioulsy not to great effect) and assign a cost to teach for the club? Perhaps the little guy would not feel that he is "getting hosed" as badly.

Computer Lease - $XXX
Printer Lease - $XXX
Golf Lobby Contribution - $XXX
GSGHOF Contribution - $XXX
Yates Scholarship Contribution - $XXX
Moncrief Scholarship Contribution - $XXX
Course Rating Team Contribution - $XXX
Junior Golf Contribution - $XXX
TOTAL - $1250

30 Handicap sign ups at no charge - $25 per thereafter

At these numbers were Mike to charge $30 he would profit $250 if he reached the 50 while perhaps feeling he is getting something for his money and also feeling the Assoc. is working with him.

Creative marketing works a bit better than cramming it down one's throat.

 

[Chris Cupit]

The outline of benefits for individual golfers and courses (owners in many cases) could cerrtaiy be explained better but I don't see how voluntary membership in the assoc is "crammed down anyone's throat".  Mike asked the GSGA to send a crew (usually three women and three men) to spend a full day measuring and rating his course. I assume he has his computer and printer and I know he was told up front what the minimum was. He didn't reach his number that would allow him to break even or profit and seems to suggest a no minimum picy that would allow his club, his employees and his members to enjoy all the advantages if just one guy from his club signs up.

You can't demand all the benefits of a buffet and expect a la carte pricing. Unbundling services would not allow golf associations, in fact, many businesses, to survive. Sad to think many seem not to care a out the state associations who really do so much to support the game.

[Chris Cupit]

No one is forced to join. If all Mike wants is a course rating I think the average cost is around $3000. The rating is good for ten years. At the 270 cost I calculated he incurred this year he should stay a member)!  But he could do that, give back his equipment and do his own handicapping.

For someone who doesn't seem to see value in the GSGA and who seems to not want to pay anything but the least possible amount I think it's strange to also expect the GSGA to turn away money from supporters/advertisers/sponsors to protect those who seem intent on minimizing their support to every degree possible. Allegiance and support is a two way street.

[Greg Tallman]

Who is suggesting unbundled  a la carte services?

I am simply saying

1. Explain the benefits better
2. Assign a value to each that ties out to the $1250 number they are obviously after.
3. Market it more creatively - I get all that stuff and 30 free handicaps for $1250... what a deal versus "As the little guy I am getting screwed"

[Chris Cupit]

Who is suggesting unbundled  a la carte services?

I am simply saying

1. Explain the benefits better
2. Assign a value to each that ties out to the $1250 number they are obviously after.
3. Market it more creatively - I get all that stuff and 30 free handicaps for $1250... what a deal versus "As the little guy I am getting screwed"

I agreed that we can always do a better job promoting ourselves and mentioned that in my first post.  I can tell you that whenever a new course or operator comes into GA, the procedure is for a GSGA employee to personally reach out to contact them and explain what we do and can do.

Most new courses want to be rated and sloped as soon as possible and that is most often the first contact.  Martha Kirouac who heads the rating department also was head of the Membership department and has been a great ambassador for the GSGA for a long time.  (She is also a GA Golf Hall of Fame Member, former Womaen's Amateur Champion and former Curtis Cup Member and Captain)!

Anyway, I know in Mike's case he has had numerous conversations with Martha and others and is fully aware of all the benefits and costs associated with GSGA.  I respect that he may not find value in the Membership and that's OK.  I think he is wrong but that's OK, he thinks I am nuts too

We sell a service to Member clubs that then re-sell that to the Members at a profit.  Not much different than Titleist selling balls to a golf shop and the shop having an inventory they must sell to regain their initial purchase before they make money.  I can't order five dozen balls at a time from Titleist and almost any vendor in the world selling anything has some type of minimum.  GSGA has really high fixed costs associated with many services and I think 50 is a very reasonable number to ask for.  AGAIN, there is not a flat fee of $1250 for anyone and it is wrong to look at it that way.

The actual cost to Mike based on his sale of 28 memberships this year is $270 which I would argue is a terrific value for all he gets as a Member Club.

One other point.  The GSGA does not market to golfers in GA individually.  You cannot go to the GSGA website and join for $25 directly and thereby cut out a Member Club.  If an individual wants to join even on-line they must go through a GSGA Member Club to get their membership.  The GSGA does this so as not to "compete" with their Member Clubs and I think this is another example of a good faith attempt to protect those Member Clubs.  

However, it is the Member Club that is the ultimate seller of the membership to the golfer.  Unfortunately the GSGA is at the mercy of the guy behind the counter--if he makes no effort to sell GSGA then many may never join.  I do find it difficult to beleive that with traffic of 20,000 paying rounds, the club could only sell 28 memberships!  I volunteered at a PGA Superstore event a few Saturdays ago and in four hours helped half a dozen walk up people get on-line to search for a member club through which they could join the GSGA.

Frankly the club has a responsibility to sell its merchandise and if they know they are on the "hook" for fifty handicaps I think with some small effort it could be done.  

I think the little guy is honestly enjoying many of the enormous benefits of being part of the GSGA and is being subsidized/carried by clubs who do a better job promoting GSGA membership.  I am a little guy.  Literally a mom and pop.  My mother, sister and I are the owner/operators.  Our course is fully private but with a initiation fee of $500 and very affordable dues.  We have supported the state golf association for forty years for many reasons but partly because it is the right thing to do.  Given all the GSGA does for golf in GA, it is still a value for me and a "steal" for small clubs!!

[Greg Tallman]

Chris, You don't have to sell me, I'm suggesting ways you might be able to sell Mike or others like him.

I don't think the "I can't believe you only got 28" route is a good one.

The way it is marketed it is purely a handicap fee driven valuation for the member club.

It is presented poorly with no economic value assigned to things that have monetary benefits for the member club. Why you would not present it as such is curious.

Course should be rated once every ten years - A la carte course rating is $3000 - voilla $300 per year is assigned to that aspect and so on and so forth.

This is what you get and we are giving you XX number of handicap services to help recoup your money... just an easier sell.

The association cannot take the "we provide value damnit" approach while failling to demonstrate that value. Hurting the little guy is not the way this game needs to go.

[Chris Cupit]

Greg,

My comments do not reflect the GSGA position. I can tell you as a course operator with forty years in the business, 28 out of 20,000 rounds is not good. Period.

The GSGA clearly spells out all the benefits to individuals and clubs and personally contacts the clubs. I know in Mikes situation I have spoken directly to him as have GSGA employees. We have explained what we offer and be has complained about the minimum. If he doesn't see value my personal opinion is he shouldn't join. But don't ask for and receive benefits and then when you don't meet the minimums complaint hat the fee is too high!

Are you in the business?  Have you had any experience deciding for a club whether or not to join a state golf assoc? 

No product is a good fit for everyone. I feel the GSGA should not try to be all things to all clubs. It can't fulfill its core mission if it tries to please everyone!  If you try to please all, you end up pleasing none. I know Mike is aware of what GSGA offers. No "marketing" will change his mind. He wants a fee structure that few in business would recommend.

It's not the end of the world when there is just not a good fit. It happens. The GSGA is healthy and aware of future challenges. They can't however develop a "let's make a deal" pricing plan for every club.

[Greg Tallman]

Greg,

My comments do not reflect the GSGA position. I can tell you as a course operator with forty years in the business, 28 out of 20,000 rounds is not good. Period.
Very presumptious comment Chris. Perhaps you do so with some knowledge of Mike's operation but I would not assume to have any clue how another item to be marketed and sold to his members/guests might burden his or other smallish operations.

The GSGA clearly spells out all the benefits to individuals and clubs and personally contacts the clubs. I know in Mikes situation I have spoken directly to him as have GSGA employees. We have explained what we offer and be has complained about the minimum. If he doesn't see value my personal opinion is he shouldn't join. But don't ask for and receive benefits and then when you don't meet the minimums complaint hat the fee is too high!
Agreed, all I am suggesting is perhaps a good sales and marketing job on the front end could have help avoid his objections

Are you in the business?  Yes
Have you had any experience deciding for a club whether or not to join a state golf assoc?  Yes

No product is a good fit for everyone. I feel the GSGA should not try to be all things to all clubs. It can't fulfill its core mission if it tries to please everyone!  If you try to please all, you end up pleasing none. I know Mike is aware of what GSGA offers. No "marketing" will change his mind. He wants a fee structure that few in business would recommend.
As noted the SCGA has a 10 person minimum so there is a precedent for his position (and I am not saying he is right)

It's not the end of the world when there is just not a good fit. It happens. The GSGA is healthy and aware of future challenges. They can't however develop a "let's make a deal" pricing plan for every club.
Perhaps Mike has suggested a "let's make a deal" scenario but if you are twisting my comments to suggest I am as well then you should go back through and read them again.

What is it with my suggestion that you do not agree with other than the fact that it suggests things could be done different/better?

[Chris Cupit]

Greg

I don't think it is presumptuous at all. I am an expert in golf operations and I am confident speaking to the issue.

I am a small operator like Mike and have known Mike for twenty-five years.   I have  been directly familiar with Mike's issues re: the pricing model of the GSGA and have spoken directly with Mike about his issues.  I have acted as an intermediary between Mike and the GSGA staff to make sure they understood his concerns and he understood theirs.  I am familiar with small clubs all over the state and have a good idea of their membership levels.  

I can confidently say that Mike, while he may not have liked the answers he was getting, was perfectly aware of the fee structure and the fact that the GSGA was not going to lower the minimum member requirement any more.  I do not agree that a good "sales and marketing job" could have avoided his objections.  Two sides had a position.  Two sides understood one another.  Mike had a CHOICE to accept the benefits I outlined above for the price described or not.  

The precedent you mention is not apples to apples.  The precedent is for a product in SC, not GA.  If GA had a ten person minimum for some clubs that it did not extend to Mike, I'd be on the front lines defending him..I hope  you will accept that GA is a different animal and a one size fits all minimum for our country may not work.  Is it not presumptuous of you to assume that the GSGA hadn't thought about all these issues and debated them, discussing the pros and cons at length?  I can assure you they have.

Here is what I think is a bit presumptuous

If I agree to pay x for services x,y and z,I think it is wrong to later complain publicly that the company providing x, y and z didn't do it on my terms or that somehow they are now  taking advantage of me (assuming of course that he benefits they promised were delivered).

Your suggestion that things could be done "differently" is well, true but so what?  Better?  Of course.  Any organization can improve and I said the GSGA could certainly do things better multiple times.  I hate to sound this way but everything you said about marketing and Mike's suggestions for different pricing aren't new and have been examined.  I personally think we could improve our marketing and I think it is crucial to dispel the notion that all one gets for a state assoc membership is a handicap!!  You are right that they MUST do a better job selling themselves.  (All the member benefits I mentioned are on the GSGA website and they describe the benefits to individuals as well as clubs).  Also, they do reach out personally to all new clubs and owners to try and explain those benefits.  

With Mike, nothing more could have been done to explain the benefits.  For some crazy reason, he joined anyway . I will redouble my efforts as a fellow member club to try and convince him that it is beneficial for him to be a part of the GSGA even if he sells not one more membership and must come out of pocket $270 this year!

Do you know Mike???  Sales and marketing are useless against him!!!  They needed a hammer

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