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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: HINDHEAD GC: The 2012/13 Winter Tour Comes To A Close
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2020, 01:51:44 AM »
Niall


Whilst Tony gets his coat, the black layer is recycled rubber crumb, bound together with a tight bonding resin. It is for drainage and sand retention. Helps to prevent bunker drains clogging with silt washed off the face of the bunker.

Were these black layers installed at Stoneham?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Turnberry, Isle of Harris, Askernish, Traigh, Iona, Tobermory, Portpatrick & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: HINDHEAD GC: The 2012/13 Winter Tour Comes To A Close
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2020, 02:16:21 AM »
It seems to me that the reworks has changed the look of the holes - ie the bunkers have changed location and shape is it better or worse?


I would say


Better in terms of construction and drainage


Worse in terms of appearance as the bunkers seem to be repetitive in size and shape rather than replicate the unique sizes/shapes of the original ones on the downhill par 3. They could have been an issue construction wise which has lead to these modified shapes. 

Tom Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: HINDHEAD GC: The 2012/13 Winter Tour Comes To A Close
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2020, 09:09:55 AM »
Niall


Whilst Tony gets his coat, the black layer is recycled rubber crumb, bound together with a tight bonding resin. It is for drainage and sand retention. Helps to prevent bunker drains clogging with silt washed off the face of the bunker.

Were these black layers installed at Stoneham?

Ciao


I believe so.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: HINDHEAD GC: The 2012/13 Winter Tour Comes To A Close
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2020, 09:56:08 AM »
Niall

Whilst Tony gets his coat, the black layer is recycled rubber crumb, bound together with a tight bonding resin. It is for drainage and sand retention. Helps to prevent bunker drains clogging with silt washed off the face of the bunker.

Were these black layers installed at Stoneham?

Ciao

I believe so.

If this is the case, I am not impressed. I was in one bunker that the sand kept sliding down the face so I couldn't get a stance. In the end I just had to hit while sliding down the face and I left an exposed black face. Is there special sand that is meant to be used with these liners?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Turnberry, Isle of Harris, Askernish, Traigh, Iona, Tobermory, Portpatrick & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Tom Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: HINDHEAD GC: The 2012/13 Winter Tour Comes To A Close
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2020, 12:34:29 PM »
Niall

Whilst Tony gets his coat, the black layer is recycled rubber crumb, bound together with a tight bonding resin. It is for drainage and sand retention. Helps to prevent bunker drains clogging with silt washed off the face of the bunker.

Were these black layers installed at Stoneham?

Ciao

I believe so.

If this is the case, I am not impressed. I was in one bunker that the sand kept sliding down the face so I couldn't get a stance. In the end I just had to hit while sliding down the face and I left an exposed black face. Is there special sand that is meant to be used with these liners?

Ciao


There isn't a 'specific' sand that should be used but the sand should be selected based on the use of the liner and the steepness of the faces and has found to be one of the limiting factors of these types of liners. Generally you can't go quite as steep with them as you may be able to do on an unlined or turf lined bunker or even some of the other liners on the market. Despite this so far though the rubber liners do seem to be preferred in the UK due to their other properties. The liner company will specify a maximum angle to build to but during construction this could easily be missed and exceeded if not careful. If this happens and then the maintenance isn't keen eyed enough to top-up/compact the faces then the problem you encountered can happen quite easily.


Wentworth installed the same liner on the West course and from experience of the previous bunkers (which didn't have a liner but were quite steep faced in places due to their depth) having issues with holding sand on some of the faces they asked for a specific sand mix from their supplier. They mixed some equestrian sand which compacts more easily into the 'standard' bunker mix (from that particular quarry/supplier) to ensure it held on the faces better. They were also careful with the angles of the faces during construction. You may remember though that during the first BMW tournament there following the renovation there were a few plugged lies in the faces of the bunkers as the sand was so fresh and hadn't had time to naturally weather and compact for long enough so it was still abit soft. This happened to Brendan Grace (I think it was him anyway...) who realised that he could dig his foot into the sand deep enough to uncover the liner and then complain to the referee that he was slipping on the liner and was granted a free drop..... not ideal. I don't think it has been an issue at all since though as the sand naturally compacts over time on the faces and as far as I am aware they are very happy with the sand/liner combination.


Personally I'm still not completely convinced by any of the liners I've seen. They all seem to have a downside and it's still quite hard to tell which of them will really last the distance and pass the test of time. Saying that I wouldn't be adverse to installing most of them given different situations and what the client is looking to achieve. I think the biggest benefit is where the site is stony and the liner prevents rocks/stones migrating up into the sand. Chalk downland courses for instance may be able to save alot of time, effort and money spent on replacing sand and cleaning out material which has come up through the sand over time.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 12:42:04 PM by Tom Kelly »

Stewart Abramson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: HINDHEAD GC: The 2012-13 Winter Tour Comes To A Close
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2023, 09:46:29 AM »

I was lucky enough to play with El Gringo when he took these photos.  We stood on the 1st tee and saw this brilliant white sand bunker in the far distance.  "That must be the liner", I said, "that MUST be the liner!"  It wasn't the liner...


I agree, the sand does the course no favours at all. Ö I just don't get why this blinding white sand has been selected.


I really enjoyed the course.  The valley holes are very dramatic and get the course off to a fast start.  There is more than a hint of repetition by the time you get to the 9th green, but it is a very engaging landscape.  I liked the contrast of the back nine, playing along the top of the ridge.  i thought there were some strong holes up there, with a nice degree of quirk.  I really liked the sunken 11th [sic Ė itís the 12th] green.   


Playing Hindhead again would be no hardship.  I think it would be a lovely day out on a nice summer's dayÖ Very nice halfway house too.


A recent trip to Hindhead led me to bump this excellent Arble tour by way of providing a little update.


 Hindhead is an excellent layout, the front nine being more bold but the back nine more thought inducing. At the time of playing however, i.e. mid July, and despite a reasonably good Summer in the south of England thus far this year, the course is currently a little green and slow. Sean's tour shows a course looking fairly firm by May. Unfortunately it was nowhere near so firm on the recent visit.


£50 now with a county card. £75 otherwise or £95 on Friday and the weekend. A bit much perhaps.


Bumping this old thread. I played Hindhead last week. Robinís description above nailed it. The seven valley holes are very dramatic and engaging, but I was ready for something different at the turn and the back nine delivered. The course was very green, yet played very firm. Iím a short hitter yet reached the 432 yard 11th in regulation thanks to the fast (and slightly downhill) fairway and almost reached the beautiful par 5 fourth hole in two due to the roll off the left side fairway bank and very firm fairway.
There was a lot more heather than in many of Seanís 2013 photos, but the biggest change was the bunkers. As compared to the 2013 photos, bunkers have been added, removed and/or modified on at least eight holes. The bunkers now are almost all of the same style, with the same (whitish) sand. The clean edged bunkers are mostly gone as is the beige sand. The sand color didn't bother me.
One additional big change is the green fee inflation. It was 150 GBP for a weekend tee time.
Posting a few photos below. Full album can be found here: [size=78%]https://www.flickr.com/photos/golfcoursepix/albums/72177720311301818[/size]



Hindhead #2




Hindhead #2




Hindhead #3  par 3




Hindhead #4  par 5




Hindhead #4




Hindhead #5




Hindhead #6 par 3




Hindhead #7




Hindhead #7




Hindhead #8 par 3 190 yards




Hindhead #8




Hindhead #9




Hindhead #9
(halfway house visible in background)



Hindhead #10 par 3




Hindhead #12




Hindhead #12




Hindhead #12




Hindhead #13




Hindhead #13 585




Hindhead #14 587




Hindhead #15  par 3




Hindhead #16




Hindhead #17




Hindhead #17




Hindhead #18





Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: HINDHEAD GC: The 2012-13 Winter Tour Comes To A Close
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2023, 05:48:02 PM »
Stewart


Thanks for the photos. I haven't been back to Hindhead in many years. Perhaps its time to set that straight.


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Turnberry, Isle of Harris, Askernish, Traigh, Iona, Tobermory, Portpatrick & Cruden Bay St Olaf

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