[John Kavanaugh]

Would Stonehenge be a bore if the dots were connected?

[Greg Smith]

JK, this is actually a fairly profound subject and I'm pleased to see it brought up.   


Rome of course springs immediately to my mind, but not the buildings you'd think.  Rather than the Colosseum, etc., I'm more attracted to the ruin of Trajan's Market, which (with the marble veneer off it) showcases a lot of the internal brick-faced concrete engineering typical of the Romans.  Same goes for Nero's Domus Aurea with its little octagonal dome.


I think these ruins are beautiful because they visually expose even more "form follows function" reasoning than the buildings would if complete and intact.  That's also why some of these building cross-section drawings you see are really interesting art objects in their own right.


I guess the process of weathering and breakdown actually kind of "distills" what's on the ground, highlighting what's most survivable, natural, and important.


From a golf architecture standpoint I think this holds true also.  Somebody the other day was talking about hunting for remnants of GCA features on the modern land of Mill Road Farm.  Sounded like an exciting hunt.  And how about the old pictures of the Culver Academy nine, showing the remnant bunkers and green sites with no sand.  Those pics let the imagination run wild.

[Don Mahaffey]

History is nice and centuries old ruins are interesting. But you don’t live in them. If you had to they’d be made water tight and climate controlled and look like old golf courses that have been modernized.


Things that grow die.  Abandoned golf courses might be interesting to some, but once nature or development takes them over, they’re gone. 


As much as we love old classic courses, they are all in a never ending cycle of being modernized in one way or another.

[Peter Pallotta]

Edit.
For another time.

[cary lichtenstein]

This made me think of the ruins of Elizabeth Taylor and Bridget Bardot, 2 of the most beautiful women who let themselves go and became tragically ugly

[Kalen Braley]

John,

Interesting topic, and my short answer is, I think its highly variable based on our perceptions and sentimental feelings of said structure(s).

I doubt many would feel that way about a decaying psychiatric ward, even if it was constructed with classic architectural styles.  On the flip side, I recall seeing a lengthy slideshow of the Chernobyl area some 30 years after the disaster, and it was mesmerizing how nature had recovered and is quickly reclaiming those structures.  But someone who lived thru it and was there... I'm guessing would have a vastly different feeling.

But if this is thread is meant to be about NLE golf courses...I see WingPointe fairly often when I go to the SLC airport and its nothing short of depressing to know what was once there and has since become.

[John Kavanaugh]

It was a Rievaulx Abbey that touched me in a way to start this thread. I'm still sorting out my emotions but I think there is something about a structure that allows the spirits who have been there before to travel freely without the restrictions of enclosure.

https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/rievaulx-abbey/?utm_source=Google%20Business&utm_campaign=Local%20Listings&utm_medium=Google%20Business%20Profiles&utm_content=rievaulx%20abbey&utm_source=Google%20Business&utm_campaign=Local%20Listings&utm_medium=Google%20Business%20Profiles&utm_content=rievaulx%20abbey

[Tommy Williamsen]

It was a Rievaulx Abbey that touched me in a way to start this thread. I'm still sorting out my emotions but I think there is something about a structure that allows the spirits who have been there before to travel freely without the restrictions of enclosure.

https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/rievaulx-abbey/?utm_source=Google%20Business&utm_campaign=Local%20Listings&utm_medium=Google%20Business%20Profiles&utm_content=rievaulx%20abbey&utm_source=Google%20Business&utm_campaign=Local%20Listings&utm_medium=Google%20Business%20Profiles&utm_content=rievaulx%20abbey

Interesting. Aelred was abbot there in the 12th century and was called the Bernard (of Clairvaux) of the north. He wrote a book on Spiritual Friendship that all of us would do well to read.


When I go to places like that if I sit silently long enough I can hear the tears and laughter of all who were there.

[Tom_Doak]

John:


I visited Rievaulx Abbey forty years ago this fall and still remember it vividly.


Don Mahaffey mentions that an abandoned golf course quickly decays, but I was out on the old back nine at High Pointe last week and was surprised to see how much of it was intact.  It's mostly weeds where the fairways and greens were, but interestingly the grass at the margins, which wasn't used to irrigation, is still there.  Unfortunately, the old maple trees apparently got used to artificial water, and died back when it was turned off.


Kalen mentions that "nobody wants to see a decaying psychiatric ward," but interestingly the biggest development project in Traverse City is a redevelopment of Building 50 of the old [psychiatric] State Hospital grounds.  It's pretty cool now, though I have to say it was pretty spooky when they were just starting to work on it.

[SL_Solow]

The one that has fascinated me, and is somewhat golf related, is Slain's Castle near Cruden Bay.  I would like to get back there for numerous reasons.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Would Stonehenge be a bore if the dots were connected?

I just marvel at all the structures humans were able to create before the machine age.   

[Peter Sayegh]

I'm still sorting out my emotions but I think there is something about a structure that allows the spirits who have been there before to travel freely.utm_content=rievaulx%20abbey

Maybe they long for the enclosure that attracted them in the first place but I appreciate your romanticism.

P.S. is "ruins" a misnomer nowadays?

[Mark Mammel]

Bram Stoker summered at Cruden Bay and wrote Dracula while viewing Slains Castle

[John Kavanaugh]

Thanks for the pics of Slains. In 1925 the roof was removed for tax reasons. Lucky for us the attempts over the years to restore the building have failed. How odd an emotion I find that to be.

[Kalen Braley]

Not to be confused with Slane Castle which has held many a music festival with epic performances

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