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Mark Steffey

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Re: You won't like Seminole
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2012, 10:14:58 PM »
Is Seminole Ross's best work or #2? 

wannamoisett

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You won't like Seminole
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2012, 10:23:07 PM »
Not many typical, average muni golfers have heard of a place like Seminole (or NGLA, Crystal Downs, etc.) Pebble Beach, for sure, but not those highly rated gems that don't show up on television while hosting a tournament.

There are many of us who are not typical, average muni golfers who have heard of places like Seminole, NGLA, etc. but have not had the opportunity to play those highly rated gems. So I can't honestly say whether or not I would like Seminole. Just saying...

Patrick_Mucci

Re: You won't like Seminole
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2012, 11:38:41 PM »
Is Seminole Ross's best work or #2? 

wannamoisett

Mark,

Wannamoisett is a wonderful golf course, but, Seminole is far better.

Superior to # 2 I believe.


Patrick_Mucci

Re: You won't like Seminole
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2012, 11:41:25 PM »
Is Seminole Ross's best work or #2? 

I'd go with Seminole.

Especially given the choice of having to play each, every day.

The course, in combination with the wind and conditions is simply superlative.


Patrick_Mucci

Re: You won't like Seminole
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2012, 11:52:06 PM »
Unless the greens are flat as pancakes 12-13 is too quick on wind exposed greens. The ball would be rolling all over the place if the breeze got above 20mph. There is a reason the R&A aim for 10.5 at the beginning of the Open Championship and our championship greens are relatively flat compared to some I've seen.

Mark,

There really aren't any flat greens.  # 5 and # 15 probably come closest to being called flat.

As to firm, I couldn't get my metal pronged ball fixer into the turf on the greens to fix slight marks.

Arthur Weber (Webber?) did a study on stimp speeds and slope.
I published/quoted the chart on another thread.

The greens at Seminole, at speed and you can fix speed based upon the caliber of golfer competing that day, are frightening in medal play.
Not that they aren't frightening in match play, but, in match play you can only lose one hole at a time.

The greens are sloped and crowned, effectively reducing their large size to about half, or 1/3 in the case of # 17.

When the PGA Tour Pros play in informal events, par is a good number.
I think the course max's out at about 6,900 from the back tees.
All of the par 5's can be easily hit in two by better players, conditions permitting.
A fellow playing in our group, who's a big hitter, hit drive 6 iron to 8 feet into # 3.
Another fellow in my group hit 9 in two.
We almost hit 14 in two and were just off the green on # 15 in two, but, that was with a wind mostly from the north, which makes holes, 1, 2, 4, 10, 11, 16 very difficult with the cross wind holes being no bargain.

On several occassions, bunker shots, hit just a little to gingerly, ran off the far side.

It's an incredibly benign looking course, until you have to play it in a 2-3 club wind, then, it exposes any weakness in any and every part of your game.

The fairways are very generous, the rough benign, but, enough to create marginal shots, and marginal shots don't fare well at Seminole.

It's simply one of the best, most challenging, most fun golf courses you could play, day in and day out.

And, it's a "golfing" membership


Patrick_Mucci

Re: You won't like Seminole
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2012, 11:53:20 PM »
Pat,

I like greens with internal contour.

I like holes that are designed to be interesting in all types of wind.

I like tempting options.

Would I like Seminole? 

NO,

You'd love Seminole.


Patrick_Mucci

Re: You won't like Seminole
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2012, 12:01:58 AM »
Brian S.

It's not at all hard to get fast and firm in Florida as long as your members don't mind a bit of brown and yellow from time to time (particularly in the winter when the Bermuda dies).  The only evergreen courses in Florida are those haunted by and catering to turistas from Europe..... :)

Brian,

I think the main impediment to acheiving F&F in Florida in the winter is the culture of the club.
In the summer, it's Mother Nature.
Most golf courses East of the Turnpike enjoy sandy soil and where there's sandy soil, F&F becomes easier.


Brian I. et. al.

Vis a vis Pat's bets.  I'll take the 5-1 odds that even the great Mucci himself can't break 80 at Seminole under his conditions, as long as he plays strictly by the Rules of Golf and we have credible witnesses. 

It's certainly not a bet that I'd jump on.
Hole locations, tee locations and wind direction and velocity would influence my decision.

What many don't realize is the influence of the wind on putting.
It buffets you as you stand over your putt and on fast greens it influences the roll of the ball, so you have to gauge pace, line and the influence of the wind.

Even a hole as simple as # 1 can be a killer, especially into a north wind.
It's so easy to leave your approach with a long putt, or to hit a marginal approach which finds a bunker or a tightly mown area leaving you a dicey recovery.

# 10 is ridiculously scarey into a north wind, especially with a left or back left hole location.
It's a short hole that extracts more than it's share in doubles, triples and higher.

Got to go, be back later.



 Can I suggest Tom Paul? ;)

Rich

Malcolm Mckinnon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You won't like Seminole
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2012, 01:18:18 AM »
A humorous story re: Seminole...

A friend of mine played Seminole many years ago and was talking to his caddy. It turns out that the caddy works Seminole in the winter and heads north to work Winged Foot in the summer.

He asked the caddy what he thought of the two clubs.

The caddy replied that the largest distinction between the two clubs was at Winged Foot the members "think" that they are rich. At Seminole, well....
« Last Edit: November 21, 2012, 06:12:09 PM by Malcolm Mckinnon »

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You won't like Seminole
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2012, 07:10:07 AM »
This post may show my ignorance, but so be it, I'll ask anyway.

How does Seminole compare to Timuquana in Jax? I played Timmy twice in March and was blown away. It was totally unlike what I expected for a Florida golf course. To me, it seemed more like a NC Sandhills course (albeit with far less elevation).

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You won't like Seminole
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2012, 11:39:20 AM »
 :( :'( ;)

Hey guys , regarding the looper at Seminole, let it go, or better yet remove it . As a former card carrying member , I would hate to see him get in trouble, even if he should have kept his yap shut re: net worth !

Dan Byrnes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You won't like Seminole
« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2012, 12:06:21 PM »
What is not to like about Seminole and this is from someone who hasn't played it.  Storied history, top designer, true to original design, tough layout, great location next to ocean, avid golfing membership.  Just about every possible thing you could want in a golf club except for access to membership.  Would join without having ever set foot on it if the opportunity ever arose without any hesitation. 

Dan

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You won't like Seminole
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2012, 03:26:01 PM »
I don't like Seminole....I love it!!!!

Lester

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You won't like Seminole
« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2012, 05:12:03 PM »
 ;D ;D ;D

Thanks Brian , now we just need Malcolm to follow suit.   

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You won't like Seminole
« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2012, 07:27:21 AM »
I played Seminole a bunch of times. Everything you say is true. I always thought it was more like a $25 muni in some backroad town. But, I like eye candy, Cameron Diaz, Tobacco Road,  Pine Valley, The South of France, and Batman Movies.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 07:29:48 AM by cary lichtenstein »
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Patrick_Mucci

Re: You won't like Seminole
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2012, 09:28:39 PM »
Mike Schott,

I agree with you. Not many typical, average muni golfers have heard of a place like Seminole (or NGLA, Crystal Downs, etc.) Pebble Beach, for sure, but not those highly rated gems that don't show up on television while hosting a tournament.


Tim and Mike,

What courses other than Augusta and Pebble has the "typical, average muni golfer" heard of ?

Mike Schott

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You won't like Seminole
« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2012, 09:34:51 AM »
Mike Schott,

I agree with you. Not many typical, average muni golfers have heard of a place like Seminole (or NGLA, Crystal Downs, etc.) Pebble Beach, for sure, but not those highly rated gems that don't show up on television while hosting a tournament.


Tim and Mike,

What courses other than Augusta and Pebble has the "typical, average muni golfer" heard of ?


Hi Pat.

Good question. Mainly courses that have hosted majors. In addition to what Brian listed, probably TOC, Winged Foot, Medinah, Oakland Hills, maybe Congressional and Muirfield Village.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: You won't like Seminole
« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2012, 04:47:14 PM »
This post may show my ignorance, but so be it, I'll ask anyway.

How does Seminole compare to Timuquana in Jax?

Brian,

The terrain, location and effect of the wind are vastly different.

While I liked Timuguana, it's not in the same league with Seminole.

I played Timmy twice in March and was blown away.

Timiquana is really more of a northern Florida course, a bit inland and tree lined.
Seminole is right on the ocean with a few palm trees and a lot of wind.


It was totally unlike what I expected for a Florida golf course. To me, it seemed more like a NC Sandhills course (albeit with far less elevation).

Seminole has some striking elevation changes, whereas Timiquana is relatively flat.

Seminole's greens and green surrounds are simply spectacular and considerably better as is their scale.

Hope that helps


Patrick_Mucci

Re: You won't like Seminole
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2012, 04:49:21 PM »
Mike & Tim,

So the golfer you depict basically gets his info from watching TV, probably not understanding that it takes months of special prep to get a course ready for an event.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You won't like Seminole
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2012, 12:05:18 AM »
Pat,

You've convinced me. Please put my name in for membership.

Dr. Bailey
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Patrick_Mucci

Re: You won't like Seminole
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2012, 12:51:52 AM »
GJ,

It's one of those rare courses that's challenging, but not overly penal, that's fun to play every day irrespective of the direction of the wind.

WIDTH is certainly a huge factor

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