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Texas_Three_Putt

Re:Wie Averaged 306.5 First Round
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2003, 11:42:02 AM »
Shivas,
I disagree with you about pre-shot routine being a bunch of bunk. I think what you confuse the "experts" idea of a pre-shot routine and what actually happens are two different things. I think the "experts" advice is "whatever your pre-shot routine is, repeat it consistently". I do agree that too many players take it way to far (love the line "walk deliberately around the ball like a bullfighter in Madrid"). I once (and I repeat, only once) played with a guy that was a 2 and he would literally stand over the ball 3 to 4 minutes before he hit it (I know, we timed him). That's just over the top. Lee Trevino has a pre-shot routine, it's just not a bunch of junk.

TEPaul

Re:Wie Averaged 306.5 First Round
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2003, 11:48:19 AM »
Shiv:

Hah--that sure got you didn't it!  :)

I'd love to see you and Wigler tee it up against Wie. I don't know what type of players you guys are except some say you're long but I'd just love to see where you hit it compared to her. I'd also love to see what would happen if the two of you went head to head against Wie on the flat in either stroke play or match play! And for a kid that plays at her level it seems to me she really can't chip or putt for shit!!   ;)

Texas_Three_Putt

Re:Wie Averaged 306.5 First Round
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2003, 11:51:18 AM »
Quote
I've seen pre shot routines that could be their own Broadway shows!
;D  ;D  ;D

Pre-shot routines don't bother too much. My pet peeve is plumb-bobbers  :'(

ForkaB

Re:Wie Averaged 306.5 First Round
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2003, 11:57:22 AM »
I played last week with a guy who "lined up" his long (60 foot+) chips and putts by standing at the mid pointperpendicular to the line, and holding two clubs parallel to the ground, viewing them with intense care.  I never had thee courage to ask him what he was doing, but as he had a very good round I assume it helped him, at least psychologically.  Anybody else seen this sort of pre shot routine?

PS--if Wigler can get a club head speed of 164, and Wie can do 148, why, oh why, is the USGA confining its testing to 120?

Texas_Three_Putt

Re:Wie Averaged 306.5 First Round
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2003, 12:01:35 PM »
Quote
PS--if Wigler can get a club head speed of 164, and Wie can do 148, why, oh why, is the USGA confining its testing to 120?
148  and 164 were ball speeds, not clubhead.

TEPaul

Re:Wie Averaged 306.5 First Round
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2003, 12:05:12 PM »
I've got to tell you guys the ultimate "no pre-shot routine" story that still kills me to think about. A good old friend of mine now--Mike Tiernan--from Delray Beach (Gulf Stream G.C. and Maidstone) was an excellent tennis player and a near All-America lacrosse player at UNC and he decided at maybe 30 or so to give up tennis and get into golf. He understands competition as well as anyone I know--he knows course management now as well as any one I know. He made a dedicated study of what it took to get good at golf--he hung out with some good players and picked their brains and observed them carefully when he was starting to learn golf.

But for some reason he never did learn the importance of some kind of "pre-shot routine" IF ONLY to get himself started to hit the ball. He used to get sort of locked up over the ball, sometimes just flailing around aimlessly and sometimes was unable to take it back--he'd back away, start again, whatever.

So one time on the 15th tee at Gulf Sream many years ago he got up to hit his tee shot and couldn't do it. He backed away, got up again, had the club sort of moving all over the place without any purpose. He backed away again, got up to the ball again, started sweating profusely and finally screamed "OH GOD!"

Now the guys he was playing with were experienced golfers, his friends, and we're looking at this in fascination and looking at each other in amazement. Finally, Charlie Neff, a very funny guy says to Mike; "Mike, stop that stuff and just go over there behind that tree and wack off because that's about all you haven't done yet!!".

Of course all of us fell on the ground laughing our asses off including Mike. And immediately following that we taught him the importance of a set pre-shot procedure to be followed the same way every time including some little starting key like a forward press or perhaps a little Gary Player left leg kick to get himself going. He did all that and has been a fine golfer ever since!
« Last Edit: August 22, 2003, 12:12:26 PM by TEPaul »

TEPaul

Re:Wie Averaged 306.5 First Round
« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2003, 12:11:02 PM »
"PS--if Wigler can get a club head speed of 164, and Wie can do 148, why, oh why, is the USGA confining its testing to 120?"

Jeeesus Christ Rich get your facts straight will you? It does sort of make a bit of difference you know? If Wie could generate 148mph clubhead speed this thread would say "Wie averages 406.5 yds Frist round" not "Wie averages 306.5 yds first round".

Kenny Lee Puckett

Re:Wie Averaged 306.5 First Round
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2003, 12:18:17 PM »
Shivas -

54?

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie Averaged 306.5 First Round
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2003, 12:19:50 PM »
Okay, I'll agree with you then.

I'll also add that this type of behavior is especially egregious & unforgivable from anyone who's not a single digit player.

What did Wiesy shoot yesterday?
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

TEPaul

Re:Wie Averaged 306.5 First Round
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2003, 01:22:43 PM »
I'll admit what Wie does before hitting a shot ("pre-shot routine") is different and far more time consuming than just a swing trigger. It is that although it definitely is a great education in mini swing mechanics. Most all these young Asian gals seem to do somewhat the same thing as Wie does and they even have their Dad's, caddies or all those things combined into a "on the bag" swing coach behind them to line them up on all their long shots and putts too.

That's definitely unnecassary and while I was walking PCC with a young lady from my club who's one of the best players in the city she mentioned watching Wie practice and there were people around here to line her up, tee the ball up for her, wipe her brow etc. I said to that friend you've got to be kidding about all of that--and she said, Nope, all of that. I wonder if Michelle has a key somewhere to turn her on and off?

JohnV

Re:Wie Averaged 306.5 First Round
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2003, 01:40:26 PM »
I'll always remember watching Jumbo Ozaki hitting drivers on the practice tee at Bay Hill one year.  His caddie was sitting there on an upside range bucket, teeing up the balls for him.

I liked how Wie's dad would move her ball from the first cut of rough into the toughest lie he could find during her practice round.  One way to teach her to hit fairways.

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie Averaged 306.5 First Round
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2003, 01:55:46 PM »
TEPaul,

I'm going to tee it up with Wigler and Shivas next week....that will be very similar to them teeing it up with Wie! I feel like I hit like a 13 y/o girl....

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

TEPaul

Re:Wie Averaged 306.5 First Round
« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2003, 02:27:54 PM »
"I feel like I hit like a 13 y/o girl...."

Joe,

I not only feel like I hit it like a 13 year old girl--I do--unfortunately that 13 year old girl I hit it like definitely ain't Michelle Wie!

« Last Edit: August 22, 2003, 02:29:16 PM by TEPaul »

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie Averaged 306.5 First Round
« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2003, 04:48:29 PM »
I don't get it. I have a swing speed of 95 mph, and I tried every driver, every shaft and every ball. My irons go exactly the same as always, 7 iron is 155 yards, 4 iron is 184 yards, driver goes further than the old persimmon woods. I get about 230 in the air plus another 20 yards roll on normal fairways.

I am 6 feet tall, weight is 185 pounds. Anyway who can get me to 300 yards gets $1000.
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie Averaged 306.5 First Round
« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2003, 07:09:40 PM »
Yeh!!! ;D ;D ;D

No mountains, real courses at sea level
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie Averaged 306.5 First Round
« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2003, 09:19:34 PM »
I have had the great pleasure of playing with both Shivas and Dave Wigler. Both are impressively long and I stand in awe of their long hitting, but neither of them hit it over three hundred yards when I played with them.  i do remember Don Mahaffey being a yard or so in front of David, but they still did not reach the magic three hundred mark.

Of course this was at sea level on fairways that were not hard and fast.

Guys, the girl is longer.

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie Averaged 306.5 First Round
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2003, 10:42:31 PM »
OK, Shivas...I see what's going on here. You talked to Wigler, and he told you I was prone to overswinging. Now you think I'm going to follow this thread and by next Wednesday, I won't be able to resist a massive case of overswinging due to this masculine need to not be outdriven by a girl! But, I'm on to you, and I'm bringing my glassy smooth, made for TV swing! Your plot has been exposed, and now you're in trouble!

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

TEPaul

Re:Wie Averaged 306.5 First Round
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2003, 10:46:44 PM »
"but I've played with Wigs enough to know that he's got a ball speed well in excess of Wie's 148.  

Shv:

And just how do you know that? Do you and Wigler carry a little ball speed tester around with you? I think this whole thing is hilarious. Maybe the first thing you should do before having your manhood threatened and getting all defensive is to go see her hit the ball--she probably really can blow it by you, Wigler and Matt Ward too! Golf will never cease fascinate me-- a 13 year old girl phenom is threatening the manhood of distance proud male golfers all over America!

This is very funny!

noonan

Re:Wie Averaged 306.5 First Round
« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2003, 10:51:38 PM »
I don't get it. I have a swing speed of 95 mph, and I tried every driver, every shaft and every ball. My irons go exactly the same as always, 7 iron is 155 yards, 4 iron is 184 yards, driver goes further than the old persimmon woods. I get about 230 in the air plus another 20 yards roll on normal fairways.

I am 6 feet tall, weight is 185 pounds. Anyway who can get me to 300 yards gets $1000.

I have been taking distance lessons......they can help.......my teacher can get you to 300 for that much $.....in 2 buckets he put 40 yards on my driver.

JK

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie Averaged 306.5 First Round
« Reply #44 on: August 22, 2003, 11:10:36 PM »
This reminds me of what my father always said after a round of golf:

"I averaged 300 yard tee shots today.....150 up, and 150 back down."
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Jeff Goldman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie Averaged 306.5 First Round
« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2003, 11:03:38 AM »
Me, aw shucks, I can't hit it past anybody.   :-X      


Shivas, don't worry, you can hit it by me.  With your putter.

Jeff Goldman
That was one hellacious beaver.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie Averaged 306.5 First Round
« Reply #46 on: August 23, 2003, 11:47:28 AM »
Dave, the mother of all pre-shot routines, Gib.  Enough said! ::)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie Averaged 306.5 First Round
« Reply #47 on: August 23, 2003, 12:08:22 PM »
Concerning Gib's pre-shot routiine, it was summed up succinctly by an ancient Scotish caddie. " Hey, laddie, With an action like that ye'll make coffee nervous."

David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wie Averaged 306.5 First Round
« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2003, 06:08:37 PM »
Shivas,

I received two calls at home this weekend telling me to violate my self-imposed no GCA ban on Saturday or Sunday and help you out.  The theoretical maximum ball speed with a .83 driver is 150% of club head speed.  Therefore, Wie's club head speed is 98 - 105 mph.  I have gone to three different professional club fittings.  In each case, my club head speed was 109 - 114 and my ball speed 160 - 165 (I lose some power from a flawed swing).  There is no human way Wie hits it past me.  If she averaged 306.5, then they definitely measured the two holes that were down hurricane, downhill, and last watered during the Clinton administration.  That is not ego, just fact.  How does the match go...she beats me 4 and 3 but is at least ten yards behind me off every tee - same goes for Shivas!
And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

TEPaul

Re:Wie Averaged 306.5 First Round
« Reply #49 on: August 23, 2003, 11:54:25 PM »
Shiv and Wigs have given us all the stats and logic they can think of that Wie can't possibly hit it by them. Although it'll never happen I'd love to see them tee it up against her--and don't forget boys, even if you can squeak it by her now and your manhood remains intact for it--it won't be long before it's really threatened! Keep in mind the kid is only 13 YEARS OLD! By the time she's 14 1/2 there's no doubt at all she'll be airmailing your Sunday best!   ;) :) :)

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