[Andy Silis]

Just saw where Michelle Wie averaged 306.5 yards off the tee in the first round of the Womens Open. ( according to the stats on the womens open webpage ) I didn't watch the first round. Were the fairways exceedingly firm??-------In any case----WOW!!!!!!------This might really put the exclamation point on the "distance controversy" in golf!------Thoughts from the group?

[Steve Lang]

 

Titleist on her hat, I saw TaylorMade 500 series driver in her hands during a follow through ending

[Forrest Richardson]

I'm sorry. I read this as "WIFE averaged 306.5 First Round" and hadn't realized that the new driver I bought her was that good. Again, sorry.

[Andrew_Roberts]

The fairways have been exceedingly fast here in the Northwest.  We happened to have a wet spring but this summer has been perfect.  80 and sunny everyday.  I did see one of Wie's drives on I believe 13 or some 380 hole on TV.  She hit the ball 300 yards but got at least 40 yards of roll on the tee shot.  The fairways appeared green with a little tinge of brown.  Very firm and very fast.

[Patrick_Mucci]

A Silis,

I remember, in 1955, when I was 13, every one of the LPGA TOUR PROS and PGA TOUR PROS playing in the Women's and Men's USOPEN were hitting the ball, oh, I'd say, within
70-90 yards of 13 year old Michele Wie's average drive.
 
Were you implying that distance might be out of control ?

[Evan_Green]

I think it is an amazing stat...even with hard fairways and corked golf clubs

[John_Conley]

Keep in mind that they are only measuring one drive per 9.  If it was 306 1/2 for the 1st round, that means it could have been 280 for one and 330 for the other - not uncommon if you had wind and an elevated tee.  Yes, the fairways are firm.

My friend's first measured drive at Inverness was 330.  You can see how the average will be skewed until more data points are entered to go along with one like that.

[mike_malone]

 BTW the winner of the tournament averaged 230.Drive for show.....

[texsport]

I'm a little confused! I thought Annika was hitting it 280 but at Colonial her average was 247 for 2 days.

Is it possible that the LPGA is stretching the driver length stats just a little or is it the fact that the fairways are rock hard and there is absolutely no rough or hazards to contend with so they can really go after it?

Down here in Texas we have a lot of Scramble Tournaments on baked out muni courses and the driving distances approach 350 yards for the big hitters.

[John_Conley]

Tex:

Annika was measured at about 266 for the 4 measured drives in her two rounds at Colonial.  The number you cite is probably all drives, and even she hit some laybacks on those doglegging holes.

Yes, the fairways on the LPGA are firm at times.  Pumpkin Ridge was just one example.

[tonyt]

texsport,

As one who has assisted the Australian organising bodies with preparing both mens' and womens' venues, I can tell you unequivocally, that for womens' pro golf, fairways are on average quite wider, and at most events, rough is negligible. It is in the LPGA and LET policies.

So the ladies take driver on at least 10-12 out of 14 holes most weeks. Sometimes EVERY non par 3. Which explains their distances. They are not assisted by firmer conditions every week, nor by exxaggeration. But their incentive to use more 3 woods and the occasional long iron off the tee is minimal compared to the guys.

[texsport]

There was a recent situation on the LPGA Tour, where the distances for tee shots were marked from the back of the tee boxes while the tee markers were at the front of the boxes effectively adding 15-20 yards to the T.V. estimates of the ladies tee shots.

Nancy Lopez played out of my former home course near Houston during her prime. She couldn't hit it 250.

It's got nothing to do with driving distance but she was not very well liked at the club due to her rudeness and attitude toward the girls local two-time Texas State Champion high school golf team. She wouldn't even talk to the girls even though we were letting her play and practice for free.

When the LPGA Championship was played in Houston, my son ,then a high school player, worked for C.B.S.T.V. as a spotter. He was amazed how short they hit it back then. They still hit it short and I think marketing the LPGA as long hitters is the wrong approach.

Annika's failure at Colonial followed by her failure to dominate the subsequent LPGA tournaments has damaged the LPGA.

Michelle Wie is a very talented youngster but far from deserving of the coverage she is getting. The LPGA still keeps score.

[JohnV]

Annika's failure to dominate the LPGA since she returned?  She won the first two events after Colonial, including a major and then just finished one shot out of the playoff for the Women's Open.  I guess she is in a slump just like Tigers.

John Conley, I saw a similiar discrepency at a Senior (oops Champions) Tour event in San Jose last year.  There was a guy standing next to me with a Bushnell who got a reading of something like 260 off the signboard 15 yards behind the tee while the paint on the ground in the fairway read 280.  I believe there was a discussion of this here in the spring of 2002.

[Paul Richards]

JohnV:

see my previous thread, but your headline, "Wie Averaged 306.5 First Round" would have Toney Penna spinning in his grave!

[TEPaul]

Ironically, this kind of excessive driving distance off the tee for Wie in the US Women's Open is said to be part of the reason she (and her Dad) ran afoul of Ammacapane, who got all over the kid and her Dad a couple of times creating a massive controversy.

Apparently Wie was so far ahead of Ammacapane--up to 100 yds in some cases that she was edging too far ahead when Ammacapane was hitting her second shots. Why did Wie and her Dad edge ahead of Ammacapane like that? They said they were just trying to save time by getting ready as soon as possible to prepare for Wie's second shots!!

I agree with redanman that a lot of that kind of distance from Wie probably has a lot to do with a super-fluid release! Wie may be one of the best examples right now of the "oily gate" theory!

A few good examples of the "oily gate" super fluid release theory would be men golfers such as Sam Snead, Fred Couples and Sergio Garcia!

[David Wigler]

Reality check both ways on Michele Wie.  She posted a solid score yesterday at the Bay Mills here in Michigan.  She beat 59 guys and lost to 60 (A far better job then Annika or Suzy - Although hers was on the Canadian Tour).   The statistic I found most interesting though, was that her ball speed was 148 mph on the measured hole.  I have always suspected that the holes the LPGA (And probably the PGA) use for measuring distance are downwind, downhill and last watered in February.  It supports the "These guys are good" slogan.

By contrast, when they measured ball speed at the "BS at the Bridges" wasn't Sergio the slowest at well over 170 mph?  Ernie broke 180 mph.  I have had two launch monitor sessions and average about 164 mph and certainly do not ever average 305.5 per drive!

[Bill Weber]

Has anyone played The Orchards, site of next year Ladies Open, lately?
Have they messed with a gem Crenshaw during a visit I think in the late 80's called one of the best preserved Ross courses he had found.
I was a member then and haven't played it since Palmers group took over course management.
I would think the kind of yardages being kicked around would have killed it back then, how about now?

[Texas_Three_Putt]

I think it was Sports Illustrated did an article a couple years ago about driving distance on the PGA tour. At the time, if I remember correctly, the average drive was about 280. What SI did was break down the tournaments into 3 categories: hard and fast, damp and wet, and soaking wet. In the hard and fast category, the average drives were 280. In the damp and wet conditions, average drive fell to 260. In the soaking wet conditions, the average drive fell to 240. Of course, there's always someone that throws everything off, John Daly averaged over 300 in all conditions.

Net result? Yes, equipment and balls have added distance, but IMHO, the number 1 enhancement for PGA players is course condition.

[Mike Hendren]

Note:  Any reasonably coordinated 6 foot tall human with a mere decent golf swing can hit these 580's and K-Clubs 300 yards whether or not they have a Y chromosome.  Else, you're not paying attention.

Dadgummit!  All this time I thought I was reasonably coordinated at 6'2" with a decemt golf swing.  I max out about 265 with my steel shafted, small-headed driver.  I can only assume the new technology would yield 300 yard drives.  I'm not about to spend $500 only to fine out it's my own dang fault

Should I quit the game?

Mike The Dinker

[TEPaul]

MikeH:

Don't worry about it. Only realize that in the context of Michelle Wie it's not just the equipment--it's her! I don't care if she is a 13 year old girl, she has the physical wherewithal to generate the kind of clubhead speed of a large and well coordinated man. I've seen her now and I can understand how and why she does it. She's tall and extremely well coordinated and has clubhead speed mechanics down to a beautiful science. In many ways her swing, plane, downloading, release is a lot like that of Davis Love a guy who always hit it phenomenal distances with what appears to be relative ease!

For anyone who wants to watch Michelle Wie and understand how and why she can hit the ball that far, pay very close attention to her rather unusual pre-shot routine. In slow motion during her pre-shot routine, which she uses on every swing it's all right there to observe. You want to talk about cocking, swing plane, down-cocking and really holding the angle to the last possible inch and then releasing the clubhead you won't find better application than in her pre-shot routine which of course she completely duplicates when she hits the ball a couple of seconds later!

[Mike Hendren]

Hey Shiv,

Nice one!

Mike

[Mike Benham]

Reality check both ways on Michele Wie.  She posted a solid score yesterday at the Bay Mills here in Michigan.  She beat 59 guys and lost to 60 (A far better job then Annika or Suzy - Although hers was on the Canadian Tour).   The statistic I found most interesting though, was that her ball speed was 148 mph on the measured hole.  

David - on the telecast last night, when her ball speed was 148, the highest speed measured to that point was 158 ... again, relative donit know, but I tend to agree with your "sneaky suspicion" that the 455 yard par-4 isn't really 455 ...

Mike

[George Pazin]

Shiv -

Gotta take a rare opportunity to disagree with you.

I'm a mediocre golfer with my brief preshot routine & still hit plenty of bad shots, but every time I try to eliminate it, I hit way more terrible shots. I am far more frustrated with people who stand frozen over the ball. And slow play, while indeed a pox on the game, is due to a lot of other things, as opposed to a brief preshot routine.

[TEPaul]

Shiv:

Then don't call it a "pre-shot routine". Just watch what Michelle Wie does in what can alternatively be called "just before she hits the ball" then and you can see in microcosim what near perfect swing mechanics is all about. Matter of fact you'll probalby see what it takes for a thin, 6 ft tall 13 year old girl to hit the ball farther than you do as big and aggressive as you might be with your golf shots!  

She definitely hits it about 40-50yds past my best!

[Martin Del Vecchio]

Shivas, I think Mike Weir would disagree with you.  He dropped his pre-shot half-backswing last year, and didn't have a single top 10.  He brought it back this year, and he's my Player of the Year.

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