[John Murray Jr.]

All -


Happy to be one of your newest members.  Looking forward to learning from each of you your views and expertise on architecture and design.  I started my website www.thegolfsage.com as a hobby and my way of giving the everyday player some feedback on overall experiences I had at different places.  I have not had the opportunity to play some of the greatest courses that you all have (I'm jealous), but try to give my honest take no matter where I go.


Have some trips coming up in the next six months -  Looking for thoughts/suggestions -


Scottsdale - November - looking for suggestions not named We-Ko-Pa, Quintero, Troon North.


Bandon - Feb - already booked up.


Vegas in March - Is Shadow Creek worth it?  Shadow or Cascata?  Others?


Myrtle Beach area in June - Looking at Caledonia.  Tempted to drive the 2+ hours to play Tobacco Road, but not sure I should drive past 1000 courses I haven't played to get there. Others?


Thanks in advance,
John

[Steve_ Shaffer]

November in Scottsdale/PHX is not prime season and courses may not be in great condition after overseeding. I suggest Verde River, formerly Vista Verde, Southern Dunes and 3 PHX Munis- Papago, Aguila & Grand Canyon U.

[Tim Gavrich]

John--


Not sure whether you're mulling over bolting Tobacco Road onto a Myrtle Beach trip, but if so, it's more like 3 1/2 hours from Pawleys Island than 2. Caledonia, True Blue, Heritage, Pawleys Plantation and Foudners Club are all fun and about 10 minutes away from each other. Reserve, DeBordieu and Wachesaw Plantation are all potentially on the table if you have private club connections.


Add Tobacco Road to a Pinehurst trip and you'll enjoy it more.


--Tim

[Stewart Abramson]

In the Scottsdale PHX area, I second Vista Verde (n/k/a Verde River) and Southern Dunes.


If you've never been to Myrtle Beach before, the three I'd suggest are The Dunes Golf & Beach Club, Caledonia and True Blue.


In Vegas, I'd suggest the three courses at the Paiute Reservation and Coyote Springs. If you are willing to drive about 90 minutes from the strip Sand Hollow is a very good option. Whether or not Shadow Creek is "worth it" depends on your budget and how you've done at the gaming tables. I'd suggest it's worth it once just to experience it, but after that I'd rather spend the $$ on three rounds at Paiute or Sand Hollow.

[John Murray Jr.]

Gentlemen,


Thanks for the input.  True Blue and Caledonia are definitely on the list.


I will check out Vista Verde.  What makes it great?  I have played Southern Dunes, albeit before their most recent renovation.


As far as Shadow Creek goes - I guess my worry is less that it is $500 as that my expectations will be too high based on what I have heard and I will ultimately be disappointed.  I assume many have this same worry - did it meet or exceed expectations? 


I have heard a lot of good things about Paiute -especially Wolf.  If I were to pick one from there, would that be the choice?

[Jason Way]

Skip Paiute, John.  Sand Hollow is the spot to hit out there.  I have some photos of both courses on my blog and it is not even close for me:


https://geekedongolf.com/2016/02/07/desert-days-sand-hollow-paiute-wolf-wolf-creek/


I would add Talking Stick North to your Scottsdale list.  A handful of truly wonderful holes on that course.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Just viewed your website. You've played a fair amount of courses in Scottsdale/PHX.  Yes, Talking Stick North is a must play and Talking Stick South has matured nicely. Vista Verde(now Verde River) has received many favorable reviews here and its recent renovation has received a luke warm review by one member here, I have yet to play the new version. Other courses to consider, if you want to travel a bit, are Gold Canyon Dinosaur in the East Valley and Verrado or even Wigwam Gold in the West Valley. If you're not a golf course snob, the 3 Phoenix munis that I mentioned are good courses and good value courses but I would not suggest playing on weekends at any of them. I'm a local and I stay away from them on weekends.

[Jon Cavalier]

Skip Paiute, John.  Sand Hollow is the spot to hit out there.  I have some photos of both courses on my blog and it is not even close for me:


https://geekedongolf.com/2016/02/07/desert-days-sand-hollow-paiute-wolf-wolf-creek/


I would add Talking Stick North to your Scottsdale list.  A handful of truly wonderful holes on that course.

Allow me to second Sand Hollow - it's tremendous, and my favorite course for Las Vegas trips. Make the drive - it's worth it.

[Doug Bolls]

So, I am planning a Las Vegas trip in Feb to see George Straight.  How does Wolf Creek fit into your recommendations?

[Brad Treadwell]

So, I am planning a Las Vegas trip in Feb to see George Straight.  How does Wolf Creek fit into your recommendations?

I thought Wolf Creek was awful.  Played it once which was more than enough. 

[Jon Cavalier]

So, I am planning a Las Vegas trip in Feb to see George Straight.  How does Wolf Creek fit into your recommendations?

I thought Wolf Creek was awful.  Played it once which was more than enough.

Some people love it. But I'm with Brad here. I wouldn't tell you not to see it at all - it's a spectacle for sure. But once was enough for me too.

[Matt Bielawa]

Wolf Creek is aesthetically mind-blowing, but the golf is sort of just ok.  Go for the photographs, not the golf.

Sand Hollow provides a bit of both...good golf and great photos.  The holes on the back nine out by the cliffs are jaw-dropping.

[Carl Nichols]

I was lucky enough to play Desert Forest following a call from our pro and would highly recommend it. 

[John Murray Jr.]

I second Matt's opinion on Wolf Creek.  If you are looking for walkability or wide open fairways - you will hate Wolf Creek.  If you want an "experience" that also includes golf - Wolf Creek is amazing.


I posted a review with my pictures of Wolf Creek when I went there - http://www.thegolfsage.com/2014/12/wolf-creek-mesquite-nevada-may-2014/


I plan on playing it again.

[Rob Marshall]

Which was the original course at Paiute?

[John Murray Jr.]

Just viewed your website. You've played a fair amount of courses in Scottsdale/PHX.  Yes, Talking Stick North is a must play and Talking Stick South has matured nicely. Vista Verde(now Verde River) has received many favorable reviews here and its recent renovation has received a luke warm review by one member here, I have yet to play the new version. Other courses to consider, if you want to travel a bit, are Gold Canyon Dinosaur in the East Valley and Verrado or even Wigwam Gold in the West Valley. If you're not a golf course snob, the 3 Phoenix munis that I mentioned are good courses and good value courses but I would not suggest playing on weekends at any of them. I'm a local and I stay away from them on weekends.

Steve,
Thanks!  I've heard good things about both TSN and Gold Canyon.  If you had to pick one of those two which one?  Gold Canyon is a bit of a drive from Peoria (where I will be staying it seems).  Thanks for the heads up on course congestion.  Definitely do not want to wait on every shot.  Looks like Gold Canyon is cart path only - I imagine this will put this course a step down.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

@ John
Since you're staying in Peoria in the West Valley, Gold Canyon is at least an hour drive. TSN is 30-45 minutes depending on traffic. Trilogy at Vistancia is near Peoria. Copper Canyon and The 500 Club are other possibilities in the West Valley. TSN is worth the drive. Rush hour traffic is always a consideration here.

[John Murray Jr.]

Skip Paiute, John.  Sand Hollow is the spot to hit out there.  I have some photos of both courses on my blog and it is not even close for me:


https://geekedongolf.com/2016/02/07/desert-days-sand-hollow-paiute-wolf-wolf-creek/


I would add Talking Stick North to your Scottsdale list.  A handful of truly wonderful holes on that course.

Jason - great review on Sand Hollow, my fellow blogger!  As you can see from my site, we share the same sentiments on the great video game golf that is Wolf Creek as well.  Thanks for the insight.

[Steve Lang]

TheGolfSage,


I'd skip Myrtle Beach and head to Southern Pines and the Sand Hills area in May...




steve,


ps if driver is your best club in the bag, is it hard to relate to average golfers?


pss  do you know The Buffalo Golfer?

[Ronald Montesano]

Does anyone really know the Buffalo Golfer?


I'll give you a Vegas suggestion: Two Fazios on one property for less than you would pay for Shadow Creek~http://primmvalleygolf.com/


You drive about 35 highway minutes from Vegas, about 50 steps over the California border, and you have Primm Valley.

[Dave August]

If you are going to be in Peoria, head to Wickenburg Ranch for a great round of golf.


Vegas - I think Wolf Creek is a great visual and a fun golf course (if fun = different), but the Paiute courses are the best bang for your buck in the area. Shadow Creek is a course that is tough to be a "letdown", and it is a very nice course, although $500 is a steep price. It is certainly worth playing once.


Have fun!

[John Murray Jr.]

TheGolfSage,


I'd skip Myrtle Beach and head to Southern Pines and the Sand Hills area in May...




steve,


ps if driver is your best club in the bag, is it hard to relate to average golfers?


pss  do you know The Buffalo Golfer?

Steve,
Well...I can't get out of the June trip to Myrtle (it is being "sold" as a couples trip...but really I'll be golfing )


I am one of the lucky ones that can do anything with a driver and still hit it a good ways.  Definitely is a big part of the reason I am around a 3.  Most of the time, when I am doing reviews I am golfing with other people of all different skills.  I try my best to get a sense of what each of them thought of the course and try to incorporate some of that into my reviews.  Service at courses transcends skill, so I usually try to give some notion of that when appropriate.  Usually the courses do not know I was there or of my review until after, so, from that standpoint I also try to still represent the average golfer's experience.


The Buffalo Golfer?  I just saw that the Buffalo Golfer is following me on Twitter.  Tell me more, please. 

[John Murray Jr.]

Carl - I will look into Desert Forest - Thanks!


Steve S - Thanks for all of your help.


Ronald - Heard a lot of great things about Primm.  I was not aware it was that close to Vegas.  Thanks!


Dave - Wickenburg looks great.  The website says during this time of year it is walking only, but then says it has dramatic elevation changes.  I don't want to kill my father-in-law.  Have you walked the course?  If not, still recommend?

[Ronald Montesano]

I'm trying to figure out how Tim G. deduced that thread author is staying on Pawley's Island. I would drive the 50 minutes from north Myrtle to Pawley's, to play Caledonia or True Blue, so dude could be staying anywhere.


That said, I agree that there is no reason to drive from MB to PH to play Tobacco Road. I think that TR has to be played in company with classic Ross courses/contemporary C&C courses in the sandhills, to establish how cool and different it really is. In my mind, TR is part of the Pinehurst experience, 100%.


I love both True Blue and Caledonia in south MB. For mid MB, Dunes and Pine Lakes (the latter as it's the oldest course along the strand.) For north MB, Love course at Barefoot (never played it, just heard good things) and my sleeper, Glen Dornoch.

[John Murray Jr.]

Good advice, Ronald.  Time to plan another trip...this one to the Pinehurst area.


True Blue and Caledonia will definitely be played!  Like you, I have also heard good things about the Love course.  I will look into the others you mentioned as well.


Thanks again.

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