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Brian_Ewen

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Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2012, 06:52:21 AM »
I plan to be there on the 23rd.

Howard Riefs

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Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2012, 06:53:32 PM »
Trump got his money's worth in having Monty at the course opening:

“It’s one of, if not the best links course I’ve ever played."


http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2012/7/11/monty-on-trump-international-one-of-if-not-the-best-links-co.html
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

jonathan_becker

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Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2012, 09:11:01 AM »
This was posted last night on golf.com by Joe Passov.   


It was more of a mist than a drizzle that descended on the grand opening of Trump International Golf Links—Scotland on Tuesday. That said, it was pouring all day—with accolades.

Start with Donald Trump himself, who made no bones about declaring it “the greatest golf course in the world” at the ribbon cutting. OK, after you finish rolling your eyes and clearing your throat, consider this comment from Sandy Jones, chief executive of the British PGA, who gushed, “There is no doubt in my mind it will certainly be in the top three in the world, but I don’t know what’s going to be number two and number three.”

Added George O’Grady, the European PGA Tour’s chief executive, “The quality of the golf course is good enough for any tournament.”

A third testimonial emerged from Colin Montgomerie, who concluded, “All I can say is, it’s so far one of the best—if not the best—links courses I’ve ever played.”

I played Trump Scotland during the grand opening as well, and I have my own opinion: Pass me the Kool-Aid, because I’m taking a deep drink. This course lives up to every bit of the hype.

Mind you, I’ve been down this road before with Trump. He’s relentless in his assessment that he has the best course in New York, the best in New Jersey, the best in Florida and the best in California. I tip my hat to each of his efforts. They’re mostly terrific. But I’ll toss back Shinnecock Hills, Pine Valley, Seminole and Cypress Point in rebuttal.

Scotland also has a few courses that folks admire. Try St. Andrews, Turnberry and Muirfield, for starters. The point is, however, that not one of these courses remotely resembles Trump Scotland, in look or playability, nor does fan favorite and Scottish Open host Castle Stuart for that matter. For pure grandeur of setting and as a championship test of golf, Trump Scotland blows away those well-respected elders.

Trump Scotland astonished me, far exceeding my expectations. What I can compare it to? Nothing. This time, Trump is completely believable. His new course is without peer.

Yes, there were political issues in getting this course built—still ongoing—related to the Donald’s bull-in-a-china-shop approach to negotiations. But now that it’s done, the focus should center on the golf, period.

So what’s so compelling about this layout? Everything. Trump Scotland boasts bigger dunes than Ballybunion and Bandon, is tougher from the tips than Carnoustie, and offers views that compare with Turnberry and variety that could compete with Muirfield and North Berwick. It is macho golf at its finest, with frilly scenery to soften the sting, yet strategic options abound from start to finish, thanks to a marvelous bunker scheme from architect Martin Hawtree and to fairways much wider than they first appear from many tees. Simply stated, this is bold, exhilarating, thought-provoking golf on the grandest scale in the history of links golf.

Only perhaps Ireland’s Waterville and England’s Royal Birkdale trot out similar set-ups, with 21st century length, framing dunes and water views, but Trump does it bigger and better. More specifically, great courses are comprised of great individual holes, which is why Pine Valley always tops Golf Magazine’s Top 100 Courses in the World. It has more great individual holes than any other course. Trump Scotland could be the links equivalent. Each of the 18 holes is a stern, scenic and strategic entity.

Related Photos: More stunning pictures of Trump's new course

I’m a huge fan of the par-5 first hole, with its roomier-than-it-looks fairway, shaggy sandhills framing the landing area and backdropping the green, and a series of artfully placed bunkers that come into play no matter what the wind is doing.

The par-3 third serves up a beach and North Sea view through a notch in the dunes, yet the look and shot value can change dramatically depending on which tee box is used. The corridor is wide enough for two holes, but there is only one, with teeing grounds scattered to the far left and far right, and still others etched high in the dunes.

Donald Trump Jr., who managed the project on-site, favors the par-5 fourth, which features an exciting and exacting tee shot, one that if over-faded will splash down in Blairton Burn. The wildly contoured green will linger in memory as well. I asked Hawtree if he had a favorite hole. Most architects avoid direct answers, muttering about how they love all their children equally and that there’s no such thing as a “Signature Hole,” but not Hawtree. “The par-3 sixth,” he said. “It’s got everything: a burn, dunes, the sea view, a demanding shot—it’s got it all.”

I also like the 10th, a 573-yard par 5. I don’t quite understand the split-fairway concept, but the approach, uphill through the tallest dunes in golf, is unforgettable. Still, it’s the par-4 14th that left me speechless. It won’t take long for this 445-yarder to take its place as one of the greatest holes on the planet. It’s the 11th hole at Ballybunion on steroids, without the quirky fairway and semi-blind approach. The highlight is an elevated tee that blasts you with jaw-dropping vistas of the North Sea, the beach and an amphitheater of gigantic dunes. The 14th might be the greatest natural golf hole I’ve ever seen.

So is Trump Scotland the greatest course in the world? No. Well, not yet, anyway. It’s my job to nitpick, and I can tell you that Trump Scotland lacks the smallish, chaotic fairway contours that make many links so enticing. Also, too many green surrounds have a manufactured sameness to them, with scooped out depressions and corresponding ridges that lack the randomness I warm to on classic links.

Most significantly, I’m not sure even after two trips around that this course will be realistically playable in the stiff breezes that typically blow through this area of Aberdeenshire. Yes, the fairways are surprisingly wide—certainly friendlier than they appear at first glance—but virtually the slightest pull or push disappears into impenetrable gunch. The caddies don’t even bother searching. You just drop and play. For me, this eliminates one of the greatest aspects of golf, especially links golf, which is recoverability. Oh well, Pine Valley isn’t high on recoverability either.

Let’s be honest. Trump built his namesake course 180 miles from his mother’s hometown not for the timid, once-a-month resort golfer, but for serious sticks. This is no pop quiz. It’s the bar exam of golf—only much more fun. It’s also surprisingly walkable, despite its vastness and elevation changes. Give it a season or two (and some rare sunshine) for the otherwise perfect fescue fairways and greens to mature and firm up and we’ll see where Trump Scotland winds up in the rankings.

Regardless of where it places in the future, Trump International Golf Links—Scotland is a bucket-list, must-play course right now, on its opening day.




Mac Plumart

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Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2012, 09:36:37 AM »
Trump Scotland astonished me, far exceeding my expectations. What I can compare it to? Nothing. This time, Trump is completely believable. His new course is without peer.--Joe Passov

 :o :o :o
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

ward peyronnin

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Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2012, 10:07:04 AM »
I have treveled the seaside highway many times between Royal Aberdeen( and vastly underrated Murcar) and Cruden Bay and there is no doubt that this is the greatest stretch of (continous) dunesland I have ever seen.

There are tens of golf course sites; all fabulous. Thank goodness someone such as the Donald ,who had the money and cohonies to challenge all the UK's antigrowth establishment hurdles, stepped up and claimed a new site from this marvelous land.

Although possible it should be hard to cock up this site and I am glad to hear it came off necely. Still not sure I care to pay $250 to play this when there is so much good stuff around 
"Golf is happiness. It's intoxication w/o the hangover; stimulation w/o the pills. It's price is high yet its rewards are richer. Some say its a boys pastime but it builds men. It cleanses the mind/rejuvenates the body. It is these things and many more for those of us who truly love it." M.Norman

Mike Nuzzo

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Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2012, 10:53:34 AM »
"lacks the smallish, chaotic fairway contours that make many links so enticing. Also, too many green surrounds have a manufactured sameness to them, with scooped out depressions and corresponding ridges that lack the randomness I warm to on classic links"

I don't understand how the above doesn't conflict with the greatest statements by Joe and Mr. Trump
The above quote subtracts 2-3 points
Sameness especially
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil & Tiger.

Mark Pearce

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Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2012, 11:01:25 AM »
"lacks the smallish, chaotic fairway contours that make many links so enticing. Also, too many green surrounds have a manufactured sameness to them, with scooped out depressions and corresponding ridges that lack the randomness I warm to on classic links"

I don't understand how the above doesn't conflict with the greatest statements by Joe and Mr. Trump
The above quote subtracts 2-3 points
Sameness especially
Exactly.

Flat faiways and boring greens.  Doesn't sound like the best in the world to me.

Kalen Braley

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Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2012, 12:15:54 PM »
Reads like a kiss-ass piece to me.

Agree with Mike N here....if its lacking in the random humps/hollows/undulations and boring green complexes...that to me suggests its lacking in character and the subtilties that make for a great course.

Terry Lavin

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Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2012, 12:18:18 PM »
Thou shalt not judge that which one has not yet played.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Bryan Izatt

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Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2012, 12:25:10 PM »
Thou shalt not judge that which one has not yet played.

Amen.

Kalen Braley

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Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2012, 12:35:37 PM »
Terry,

That was especially ironic coming from you!!   ;D

Steve Lapper

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Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2012, 01:06:46 PM »
I've played it now, several times in fact, with the esteemed Mr. Klein.

Say what you want about the owner, but the course is as bulletproof a winner as they come! Everything you want with a large scale links course is there and some. This is marvelous course that thrills, challenges, intrigues and rewards throughout it's 18 holes. It's neither excessive, nor artificial. These dunes are enormous and imposing. They rise and fill up the area with natural drama. No living architect worth their salt wouldn't have taken advantage of them to elevate the scale of the course up to match its environs.

If we are to be fair and worthy commentators on all things related to GCA, then let's set aside our cultural bias about whatever you think about The Donald and instead focus on Martin Hawtree and his team's treatment of such an exquisite and naturally majestic site. It appears to me ( as well as Brad, Joe, et.al.) that tremendous thoughtfulness and examination was exhibited. They certainly got the routing right, taking it south, then back north, before ultimately turning south again on the all-world finishing hole. The nines return to the modest and efficient temporary clubhouse ( think Bandon Trails for building architecture).

The front likely plays several strokes harder, but has risk-reward gems like the reachable 500 yd 1st, the strategically bunkered 360yd 5th the 276yd drivable par 4, 7th (only with a southerly or no wind day). In between, the stern 4th, the "do or die" 176yd 6th, and a pair of tough four pars: 8th and 9th all combine to give the course the rthythm of a Pine Valley, a Royal Melbourne or Royal County Down.

The back eases out somewhat with wider landing areas and a visually more open feel (save for the all-world 14th), yet by the time you reach the back tee box of the 18th (650yd and eminently playable there, demanding only a 210 carry to the fairway several hundred feet below) you wish the round would never end. Oh, did I forget to mention that the vista from there is easily belongs in the top ten of golf?

Criticism about the number of tees, the supposed "lack of ...chaotic fairway contours and greens surrounds" is a wee bit of nitpicking (as Joe himself admits). Surely, it would have been easy to duplicate the exciting pinball-like features that exist at places like Old Mac, Ballyneal, nearby Royal Aberdeen, etc., however Hawtree's team put ample movement on the ground with plenty of humps, bumps and kick plates without nearing the excessive or contrived. Only a few fairways have flatish areas, but don't such exist at the likes of Muirfield, Shinny and close-by Cruden Bay?

The green surrounds, on a predominance of holes, we're elevated and had they not included "scooped out depressions and corresponding ridges," they would well have lacked interest and lost considerable strategic value( straight run ups without rejections and acceptions).  The greens themselves were kept to reasonable speeds, both by the necessity of desired patience to promote their sustainability, as well as the wettest Spring/Summer on record in Scotland.

In fact, the wet weather has made every course play lush and slower than normal. The gunch at Trump was far more benign than neighboring Cruden Bay, (almost near unplayable as very good shots were lost 2 feet off the fairway ).  This brings me to the "bitch du jour" on this thread about the # of tees. I'm usually no fan of the multiple tee idea, but in the case, it not only works, but is more than deserved. Nowhere are the tees simply stacked or piled. Instead, they are wisely offset and spaced to allow for multiple angles on nearly every hole. Many of the most classic of links don't possess the flexibility of angles and strategies that were created here. It more than works as I spent several rounds changing tees and angles to compensate for wind strength and direction.

Those of you who chose to condemn it or denigrate it are simply revealing your partiallity, skew and inclinations to pre-judge. It is your right, but you will have missed an opportunity to enjoy a brilliant design on an amazing property.

Trump may not be yet described as a classic course, but it most defintitely will be one day. It is an incredible work by a thoughtful team and a must-play on the Auld Sod.  :D


« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 02:15:37 PM by Steve Lapper »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2012, 01:10:30 PM »
This is as exciting of news as I've heard in quite some time.

Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Michael Whitaker

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Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2012, 01:32:34 PM »
Thanks, Steve, for a VERY insightful report. I hope to play the course in late August and have taken note of your use of the multiple tees. Good stuff!

Mike
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #39 on: July 12, 2012, 01:40:26 PM »
Thank you Steve.

Niall C

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Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #40 on: July 12, 2012, 02:06:45 PM »
I have treveled the seaside highway many times between Royal Aberdeen( and vastly underrated Murcar) and Cruden Bay and there is no doubt that this is the greatest stretch of (continous) dunesland I have ever seen.

There are tens of golf course sites; all fabulous. Thank goodness someone such as the Donald ,who had the money and cohonies to challenge all the UK's antigrowth establishment hurdles, stepped up and claimed a new site from this marvelous land.

Although possible it should be hard to cock up this site and I am glad to hear it came off necely. Still not sure I care to pay $250 to play this when there is so much good stuff around 

Ward

I'm so glad that in despoiling one of Scotlands unique landscapes Donald has made you happy...........now where the fucks the sarcasm emoticon ?

Niall

Niall C

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Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2012, 02:53:56 PM »
Interesting comments from those that have played it. Certainly looks like they've gone for the WOW factor in a big way. Hard not to on a site like that.

Steve

As a matter of interest, how narrow were the fairways at Cruden Bay to be unplayable ?

Niall

Steve Lapper

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Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2012, 03:09:38 PM »
Interesting comments from those that have played it. Certainly looks like they've gone for the WOW factor in a big way. Hard not to on a site like that.

Steve

As a matter of interest, how narrow were the fairways at Cruden Bay to be unplayable ?

Niall


Niall,

 The fairways were likely their usual width ( haven't been back here since 2000....played it 2x then), however their maintenance practices seem to have slimmed. Balls struck well enough to find some rough or even the edges of the the bunch were gone instantly. The density there was extreme making the course an exercise only for those willing to bring along a Norden Bombsight. We played it in 25mph and while we loved the architecture ( still fantastic), it became disappointing to strike decent shots that disappeared swiftly. As an aside, Royal Aberdeen, no less known for its narrow fairways, played infinitely better as their light rough and heather borders kept any decent shot in play. They also evidenced a clear gorse and bunch thinning program.....cheers!
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2012, 04:09:20 PM »
Re- Cruden Bay... I think rough management has got away from a lot of links course managers this year... It's difficult to imagine how wet and miserable a summer this one has been in Britain & Ireland... Keeping those green leaves away underneath all those lovely fescue stalks must be next to an impossibility...

Brian_Ewen

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Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2012, 04:58:51 PM »
I have treveled the seaside highway many times between Royal Aberdeen( and vastly underrated Murcar) and Cruden Bay and there is no doubt that this is the greatest stretch of (continous) dunesland I have ever seen.

Ward
I fly over the area twice a month, and I disagree.

I would rather have the land a little further north, before you reach Newburgh.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 05:01:16 PM by Brian_Ewen »

Brian_Ewen

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Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #45 on: July 12, 2012, 05:05:26 PM »
It's difficult to imagine how wet and miserable a summer this one has been in Britain & Ireland.

You know Ally, I am sick of hearing thiis.

Here (NE Scotland) the summers have been pretty consistent for the last 8-10 years.

But for some reason we seem to be in denial.

The days of hard fast yellow fairways, I knew as a junior are long gone.

Steve Lapper

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Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #46 on: July 12, 2012, 06:02:22 PM »
Steve,

Fantastic review. Thank you.

When I listen to someone's thoughts on a place, my attention is drawn not to how effusive their praise is, but how / how strongly they deliver the negatives - that's more instructive to me. Joe's nitpicking paragraphs were a source of alarm (particularly the shaping / flattened / orderly feel to the fairways  / green surrounds) but yours much less so. It sounds as if you, Joe and Brad were in close contact during your time there - did you notice any dissenting parties? Also, could you comment on its walkability and can you compare that with other recognisable UK links courses you have played?

Leaving aside unusually soft conditions (presumably it will get firm with time), where would you rank it in your all time favourites?

Cheers,
B.

Brian,

  With a little pub food and ale in me, I'll try to answer your questions.

  With a close enough eye, there are flaws in most every diamond.

  In this case not many, but instead just a few items that, in my estimation, will be remedied swiftly. On a handful of tee boxes, the high grasses are a wee bit too high in the front of the boxes, resulting in potentially interfering grass walls. A small number of bunkers might be a tad severe and in need of widening or shallowing. Architecturally, it's so strong not much is needed, perhaps some post-play evaluation of two mirror-like holes on the back....maybe ( and I emphasize maybe) an additional fairway bunker to add stronger strategy to those driving areas. That's it!

It's tough to criticize a really, really good new course (i.e. Pac Dunes, Old Mac, Friars, et.al) as too few have played it to offer a meaningful or consensus critique. Every new course needs time to properly and fairly assess.

Walkabilty is just as you should expect it among these giant dunes. Plenty of elevation changes, and a few stiff hilly ascents to the back tees, but the distances from the greens aren't far and the paths are emerald lanes of grass that are wide enough for you to walk beside your caddy and discuss your upcoming strategies. Asphalt appears rather rarely, and only for the benefit of the maintenance vehicles. Climbing into the gunk is no fun and trust me as a recent expert in the task, equally painful anywhere.

This is not a course easily comparable with other UK links. It's scale and verticality put it in a league by itself. At times it appears to have the charm of a Turnberry, the difficulty (especially if you play the wrong tees) of a Carnoustie, and the visual beauty of a Royal Dornoch. When the weather clears, it's magical and impish. When the weather was up, it's got it's brooding moments not unlike a Muirfield, a County Down or Portrush.

Having had the good fortune to have played some of the world's more far away gems...those that know me know I've forever been a Sandbelt butt boy..I'd put it rock solidly into my top 20-25 World and expect it to climb over time. It's that good IMO
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 04:33:02 AM by Steve Lapper »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Jed Peters

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Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #47 on: July 12, 2012, 06:38:46 PM »
Thank you for your honest review, Steve.

Very exciting news for the golf world, and for Mr. Trump, who I respect greatly as a wonderful steward of the game.

JC Jones

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Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #48 on: July 12, 2012, 06:55:26 PM »
I bet it was some marketing expense to have all of these people "review" the course. 
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Will Lozier

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Re: Trump International Golf Links
« Reply #49 on: July 12, 2012, 09:29:14 PM »
Steve,

Thanks for the review.  I have to question the elevation change on #18!!?  Is there really a tee shot to a fairway 200 FEET BELOW?!?

Cheers

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